Here's a couple of questions we can beat around the bush for a while. Should make for some interesting views too.

Are Models today, lacking in instructions?

or

Are we as Model builders too lazy to learn?


Somewhere some time ago, I can't recall where or when, these two questions came up in a discussion.

As you can imagine, just from reading the two questions we can see that they both come from the two sides of an argument/discussion. And in both cases they can be directly related to the model builders expertise at the time of the discussion. One was a model builder of some 50+ years and the other one of 4-5 years.

So what do you think?

Are model builders today (no I'm not speaking about all model builders) too lazy to learn how to properly build a model and must have every step of a build laid out for them, piece by piece by piece????

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

Winston:

Great question! Being a former mechanical draughtsman (I use the old spelling, as I did my work in ink on vellum), I can build anything from a set of properly drawn plans. The key word being properly! Most of the plans that I have seen lack details and have very few, if any dimensions. Proper scale is also a probem. The ship I'm presently working on, the Independence by AL claims its 1:35 scale. If that's correct, then the ship, a topsail scooner, is approx. 45' long with cannon that you could put in a holster on your belt. A scale of 1:64 seems more proper, but I'm not even sure about that.

I believe the problem we face is the time factor. We're building ships from the 16th, 17th and 18th century in the 21st century. We have no people that we can write to or talk to face to face who sailed or built these types of ships. Anything we do is written down in books from ages past. We can't go directly to a human source and ask questions as to how something was constructed, adjusted, placed, etc. Also, many of the ships offered as models have no known plans or specifications, they exist as a name and type in aa ancient book somewhere.

The companies that make these models we build are not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to research a given ship, they are going to sell a kit that is easy for them to manufacture, and if they have to take liberties with certain parts (do they belong on that period ship, etc.) and how they're to be assembled, they'll do so.

I've tried to read as many books as I can on sailing ships, and as you would know, I'm still mistified as to how different parts of a ship are assembled, built, what did the use for material, etc.

I'm one that's willing to learn, I just need to know where I can find the information without spending bucket loads of money on buying plans, books, and all that! That's why I think that's it's people like us who are preserving a time of history. Maybe we don't have the actual ship, but we can have models that show what they were like.

V.W. Miller

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

From the viewpoint of an old man who has been building models (airplanes and ships) most of his life, I think the younger builders tend to require a lot more instruction and preparation and want the finished result without a lengthy build period and without having to learn a whole lot. We older fellows cut our teeth when we were kids on the 10 cent model airplanes that were amazingly difficult to build and we expected to spend many days building one. We quickly learned that we needed more information, so off to the library we went and read books about model airplanes. Then along came the plastic models, and we could glue one together in a few hours. Today most of the model airplanes are bought already built, pretty much ready to fly. People don't enjoy the building part anymore, it is more an instant gratification thing.

I think the same thing is basically true of ship models, although I did not start modeling ships until later in life. I still expected to have to learn a lot, I expected to read a lot of books and magazines and I expected to spend a lot of time putting one together properly. So I am content with a kit that has sparse instructions. Not to say that I prefer that however. When I look at one of the Model Expo kits, for example, I am amazed at how much information is presented in the instructions, and how nice it is that the parts are all laser cut and ready to install. But even with this prefabrication and information, I still expect to have to learn a lot on my own and to do a lot on my own.

If I did not expect to put some learning time into the hobby, then yes, I would say kits need more instruction. Are today's modelers too lazy to learn? No, I think that they just have different expectations. Some are too lazy, yes, but this is always true. Most just grew up with faster gratification and less learning needed and expect it to be that way. It is a cultural thing.

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

I think that you can never have to much information when working from a set of prints or instructions. As a former Forging Die Designer, the printed instructions like I received with my first Constructo kit and so called drawings, left me in the dark. I was used comprehensive instructions and diagrams.

I think there are two issues, beginners and modeling companies who think everyone ought to be a Frank Mastini, no disrespect intended. I don't think it's to much to expect any modeling company to provide comprehensive detailed instructions on how to build their model, it just makes good business sense.

Winston, you should set up a voting pole. It would be intresting to see the results of such a pole.

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

As a novice who has finished the Phantom and is now tackling the Benjamin Latham, I offer my opinion (you asked for it!). I took up modelling last fall (at age 47) for a couple of reasons. One was to actually do something with my hands that I can look back at and appreciate and the other was to learn patience. Although I am not a craftsman (I own a mortgage company) I used to be a jet mechanic and studied engineering. I admit that I felt I needed to have my hand held during my first build (thanks to Chuck's practicum, I could) and I think the result, although not perfect was acceptable. Now I want to move on to bigger and better but the bottom line is that I want to BUILD, not READ. I read many books but unfortunately technical books about ships are not my bag. Luckily I can figure out pretty much what the plans are indicating but it is only after much study and some trial and error. Personally I would love to write a practicum but by the time I do something right, I have finished it, sometimes after 2 or 3 missteps so unless I document all of my errors I couldn't write a practicum that is succint and helpful to folks like myself who will come after me. It is frustrating to me that folks who have spent years building don't document their builds so that we novices can use their experiences to build ours. There seems to be little spirit of passing the hobby down to the next generation although everyone in this forum is very helpful and willing to share. If more people were like Chuck, there would be more successful builders and far less partially started models on Ebay or in trashcans. So I guess I can read books about ships and modelling but like I said, I love to fabricate. Also, based upon the comments of vwmiller, even with his experience and learning he is still "mystified." The two plans I've used are adequate but the instruction manuals are lacking sufficient detail. Thankfully I've learned a lot from Chuck's practicum that relates to my current build and with the fine website "Ship Modelling for Dummies" I feel that I am equipped to turn out something to be proud of. I don't think it is laziness, it is just that this is a hobby and many people who may really get into it eventually may be turned off by the complexity of building without step by step instructions.
Anyway, that's my neophite 2 cents worth.
mike

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

I think that what Tommy had to say makes a lot of sense. I scratch built my first ship models when I was in high school. I had only built model airplanes up to that point, and all from kits of varying quality. I also learned a lot about that from older kids who knew more about it than I did and were happy to teach me.

When I decided to try model ships it was because I wanted to build ships I had read about. Consequently, I had no plans to work from except some very basic ones (which fortunately did include the vessel's lines) in the books, and no reference material except a few photos and any details that the authors had mentioned. I should clarify that these 'ships' were small private sailing craft such as Edward Allcard's yawl Temptress (which he wrote three books about) and Ernesto Uriburu's ketch Gaucho. Except for blocks and chains everything was scratch built. While I have learned a lot since (and a great deal since I joined this forum) I still look back on these early models with a bit of awe when I consider how many things I worked out on my own. Of course they also include details that now appear a bit amateurish but it was a great learning experience as I had no one to teach me what I wanted to do or how to do it.

I think it all boils down to methods of working. Some people need to be shown what to do and others can start out with a few basic instructions and fill in what they need to know on their own. The great thing about this forum is the wealth of information available from so many different levels of knowledge. Whatever your method, ship modelling can be a very satisfying hobby leading to a beautiful end-product.

Richard

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"

pondered over the question, and like so many others, i also have an opinion. after retireing a few yrs ago, i came across a pic of a hand made wooden ship. being someone who loves to work with his hands, i decided to investigate ship models. wish i had discoverded this web site first. after looking at various models from different vendors, i bit the bullet for 375.00 and got a box of sticks and 8 sheets of drawings. since i live inland and have only visited the ocean several times its obvious i knew nothing about ships.the point is, i wish i had started on something a little smaller. Corel is the company that distributes my ship. although the drawings are sufficent, the written instructions are of no value whatsoever. i would be willing to bet that 75-to 85 percent of these kits that are bought are never completed. i also believe it needs to be explained to the average builder that it will take a year plus to complete one of these kits. ( closer to 2 or 3 years for me ). it should also be explained by the vendor that a basic understanding of blueprint reading is needed also. so my answer to the question is yes, and yes. teenages,(no , wait anyone ) unless they are fortunate enough to have someone to teach them how-to will never finish a project. if they are lazy there's not much hope either. anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. i do really appricate the good mates on this site who have helped me. keep on buildin.

 

Custom Search

Searching for something? See Search Tips, Main Search Page, Amazon Quick Search Do a "Quickie" - Google that is!  Or would you rather - "Amazon"