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02-05-2010, 07:45 PM
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Help with a Scale question
I think I have a scale problem with a kit I just got. OcCre's Corsair.
I just got this kit yesterday. I'm not new to model building, this will be my 6th kit, however it's been about many years since I've built one. So I'm kind of re-learning. (I have some bigger more intricate kits I'd like to build but this one looked straight forward and interesting. My problem that I noticed right away is the scale listed for this ship. Does anyone know if this was an actual historic ship that I might be able to research or is it just fictional. I'd like some size references. You see I'm comparing it to 3 models I previously built: 1. Artesania Latina Swift, 1:50 scale, 21" long, 18" high 2. This kit, Corsair, 1:80 scale, 31 1/4" long, 24" high 3. Mantua President, a Frigate, 1:60 scale, 21" long, 15 1/2" tall 4. Mamoli USS Constitution, 1:93 scale, 38 1/4" long, 26 1/4" tall. One of these kits I beleive is WAY off in scale, and I suspect it's the President. Why would a 3 masted Frigate at a larger scale than the Corsair, a brigantine, be SO much smaller in size? I mean I look at the cannons on the President and they are tiny compared to the ones on the Corsair and Constitution. In fact I'm also wondering if the Corsair is out of scale as well, meaning it actually a bigger scale than advertised. I mean when I compare it to the Swift, it's harware seems huge and the Swift is a larger scale than the Corsair! Tell me I'm wrong in my assesment and where I'm off. Or if I'm right, since I plan to modify the kit with some minor details, I need a scale that is most correct to work with. Anybody have any thoughts or suggested references? Tim (first post on this GREAT site BTW!) |
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02-06-2010, 09:08 AM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
Hi Tim:
It appears that Mantua’s President is closer to 1:120. You can check it by using j_lefever’s excellent XL scaler tool, downloadable right here on this site. It is my understanding that the Corsair is a representative model of French and American privateers of the period, and that no specific historical reference to that particular ship exists, but I'm not 100% sure. Regards, Bob 
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02-06-2010, 10:59 AM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
I may be off the mark here but did you check the lengths (full size) of the ships ?
I bought two same scale models that are very different in size and thought one of them is out of scale until I checked their actual lengths.
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02-07-2010, 09:30 AM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
Bill:
Wikipedia says the President was “175’ between perpendiculars.” With the bowsprit the LOA would have been at least 200’. A 200’ ship modeled in 1:60 scale would be 40” long, not 21”. (According to the handy dandy scaler spreadsheet) Longhand: 1/60 = .0166. 200’/.0166 = 3.32’, or approximately 40”. Check the math; it was always my worst subject. Bob
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02-08-2010, 01:36 PM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
Sorry it's taken me so long to check this out, I'm a firefighter and work 48 hr shifts. (I just got off!)
Anyway I used the above info, tried to do some research and used the "Scalator" program from the Model Ship World site and came up with this: Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems that all of these kits "advertised" scale is off according to the Scalator and what little I could find for actual ship lengths. The Constitution is 204" actual, but at 1/96 scale that would make her almost 300' long! I figure the scale is closer to 1/64? The President is about 200' actual, and the 1/120 scale given I would say is closer than the 1/60 listed on the kit. The Swift I could find no refernce to as far as actual length but at the advertised 1/50 scale that puts her at 87' and I beleive that might be too long for a small ship as her. Finally the ship I'm ahbout to embark on, the Corsair, the best I could find for a "brigantine of that era was actuall 70-115' long, at 1/32 scale that would make her 105'. Just looking the cannons however, they are huge compared to the ones on the President. If I were to place a 6' man next to them, at 1/32 scale, 2 1/4". This seems rather large, but maybe not? I'm getting REALLY confused here, are the scales listed on these kits this far off usually |
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02-09-2010, 12:26 AM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
I'm a bit unsure what vessel the Mantua President actually represents....
Model shipways describes her as a typical 1730-1760 frigate. Wikipedia lists several HMS Presidents One 26 gun vessel of 1646 with indeterminate length A 42 gun ship of 1650 - length +/- 100' A 38 gun ship of 1806 (captured from the French) of +/- 150' length A 44 gun ship of 1815 (captured from the Americans and alleged to be sister of the Constitution) of 175' length. The Mantua dates don't match any of these vessels. Chapelle has published complete drawings of the American President and she clearly is not the 44 gun American. I rather doubt that she's the 38 gun Frenchman either. I rather suspect she may be a bit conjectural and if the pictures in Model Expo are accurate has many fewer guns than any of these vessels, In fact, she looks a bit more like an armed merchant. Regards Jim
------------Members' Signature------------
Fair - and in scale - seas to all.
Jim
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02-09-2010, 12:44 PM
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Re: Help with a Scale question
It's definitely a smaller gun ship, I doubt this one has 26 gins, I'd have to go count! However I posted this on the Ship world's forum and I was told something I didn't know. The ship's lengths that are usually listed are the hull or deck lengths and do not include bowsprits, gaffs, etc.....so now I'm really at a loss to determine the actuall scales. That probably explains some descrepency however just looking at the Corsair plans, next to the President competed, one or both of the two models listed scale has to be wrong. I'm just looking with a workable scale for the corsair that i can stick with as a start to build this kit.
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