Re: Hms Victory
 

Mike:
I just ordered the Corel HMS Victory Kit (still have not quite finished my La Courrone project). Since the Victory will be my third project, I am hoping to produce a much more acceptable result with that project. Trust me, the old saying "Experience is the best teacher" really fits this challenging hobby.
The Victory will be my first kit project.... not sure what to expect since I have only done scratch-built projects thus far.
The improvement from the first one to the second one is quite obvious and I would say most pleasing to me personally.
I can hardly wait to set into my third project and challenge myself to take "my game" to another level.
I will certainly be watching your progress on your Victory with great interest.
Keep up the good work.
Dave

Re: Hms Victory
 

Mike: Very nice for your first attempt; Looks like you got over your "planking gremlins". I especially like how you have worked out the problems at the stern. I believe you said you were going to use the second layer of planking. Is that right? Consider the first layer as your tutorial in planking. They second layer will look great.

Well done.

Re: Hms Victory
 

James:

Thanks for the compliment on the stern...I was about 6 planks into it and saw that the two angle were not the same. So I had to cheat one side to the proper angle and then fill in with a wedge and a sliver or two.

I've decided to install the garboard strakes now rather than later. I will be able to work in two directions now...plus it assures me that the last plank before the garboard doesn't end up between bulkheads. It turned out that with my 10 mm garboard strakes, they just made it past the centerlines of bulkheads #1 and #17

However with the garboard strakes now installed I can confirm that my plank count for bulkhead #18 at the stern was off...and so was the plank count on the transom. Right now it looks like the count of off between 1 to 2 planks.

This was the main reason I decided to install the garboard strakes. I can now plank off the garboard strakes until the planks extend to bulkhead #18 where I can then get an accurate count AND size of the remaining planks. Plus by working up I give myself "more room to work" should I have to do some inventive carpentry in order to close things up tight and right.

Lets see...Fri, Sat, and Sun at (5 planks x 2 sides)/day you should expect to see a photo or two on Monday or Tuesday. I will look at the hull for at least a solid day before I pick up any sand paper at all...I got bumps right next to dips and I have to figure out which has to be corrected and which has to be left alone...maybe they both have to be corrected, who knows.

Ahh...Is the proper sequence for hull preparation; Drain the hull with a coat of diluted wood glue, apply filler, and then sand? Or is it in some other order...or am I missing a step (or two) here?

I've been doing a little bit of scraping with my scalpels and minor/minor sanding, so before I drain the hull I'll probably hit the hull with some compressed air to get the dust and small chips out the interior.

I'm also at the point where I have to decide whether I want to do the first of a little bashing that I have been thinking about. The Trafalger configuration for the Victory includes a couple of bulwarks above the deck level at the foc'sle (among other things)...this is the point in the build where I HAVE to decide if they are to be included in my model...or not.

As to the second layer of planking...well I mentioned that I worked up a spreadsheet that calculates the amount of plank creep per bulkhead per plank number...I'm really thinking about using it for the second layer...or at least in conjunction with it.

Mike

Automerged Post:
Dave:

All Victory builders, past, present, and future are more than welcome to participate in this thread.

I really am flattered that you, a soon to be 3x builder, is going to watch this rookie's progress.

How far along is your La Courrone? Or, when do you think you can start on your Victory?

As to being not sure what to expect....first off I would inventory and inspect for quality, all of the part and pieces in the kit. Make a list of what you are short of , if any, and what pieces and parts are of substandard quality, if any, and contact the distributor or manufacturer about replacement policies. As for my second thought...well...get down on you knees and PRAY that the instructions are not in Italian. ;-)

I hope I can help, but since my kit is a Mantua kit I can probably only answer general questions. James on the other hand, and I might be wrong here, but I believe he is bashing a Corel kit. Either way both of us, at least right now, are pretty regular visitiors and posters to this thread...and any questions you ask will probably not go unanswered for more than a day or two at the most. You might also check out the thread on Corel HMS Victory questions as another source of information.

I am little curious about one thing. You said that after two scratch builds, your Corel kit was going to take your game to another level. Why did you start out with scratch builds in the first place? My limited experience tells my head that scratch builds are more difficult than kits...if you are building the same ship. Like I said I'm just curious.

Mike

Re: Hms Victory
 

Regarding your question about my beginning with "Scratch building".... I honestly was not looking to be drawn so deeply into this great hobby. Having recently retired, my wife and I decided to move back to our home town here in NC. Been a serious woodworker for over 30 years and have a very serious shop for all my toys accumulated over the years. Got burned out on building furniture so decided to challenge myself with something on a smaller scale.... found the downloadable plans for the "La Couronne" online and started making sawdust immediately.
What a mess I made of my first model! I literally made every mistake one can make right from the beginning! You name it - I screwed it up!
So.... using that one as practice, I decided to build the same ship again.
Much more pleased with the way the second version is going.
Check out my blog (created to keep my kids posted on my progress)... http://ncbullocks.blogspot.com/
Just an old retired fart trying to stay out of trouble with my better half.
Dave

Re: Hms Victory
 

AAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH ](*,)

Major OOPS.....Me real BAD.

I though I was properly watching and accounting for, how my planks behaved between the Bow and my No. 1 bulkhead. Turns out that I need glasses, need new glasses, or need to quite working on the model at 4am in the morning while getting up at 9am....cause I sure wasn't waching that transition as well as I thought I was.

Turns out that the planks directly at the bow have been WAY too wide while my No. 1 bulkhead plank widths have been right on the money. If I continue, then 3 or 4 of my planks, out of the supposedly remaining 8 planks, will not reach the bow.

Spent most of today (12/10) trying to figure out how to correct the situation and "make" it right" by doing it right. From the bow to the No.3 bulkhead I will run 6 planks (instead of the planned number of 8 planks) where the planks widths will "max" out at their shipped width of 5.04 mm. At that point, at bulkhead No.3, I will add a full stealer between every matched pair of the 6 initial planks so that at the aft side of the No.3 bulkhead I will have 9 planks each 3.36 mm wide. From there on I will run all of the planks sternward with equal widths.

If I stagger the ends of these 9 planks then the earliest that the longest plank can terminate is at the No. 14 bulkhead while the shortest will terminate at the No. 6 bulkhead.

If the stern/transom area is likewise messed up then I will have a "reversed" staggered area between the No. 14 and No. 6 bulkheads to correct that problem...if it exists. Will everybody PLEASE [-0< cross their fingers and hope for the best...because this model only has a total of 18 bulkheads and that will make things tight if there is another "MAJOR" problem.

I will load some pictures of the "fixing" process when I am done with it.

Oh yeah, this fix is only for the port side bow area...I haven't yet got to the starboard side. (deep breath and then a "sigh")

"If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all"

Take care folks

Mike

Re: Hms Victory
 

Mike: Consider this a "learning project", and remember what you do on one side, you do on the other; You want the sides to "match".
You did say that you were going to "double plank", right?

"Carry on".

Re: Hms Victory
 

James:

Yes I am double planking her. I'm trying to decide whether or not to copper the hull since I'm trying to build her to the 1805 condition...just not sure whether I want to spend that much time on the hull.

Also trying to decide whether to add the foc'sle bulwarks and the poop deck bulwark barricades that the kit did not include...I guess since the kit was not for the 1805 configuration.

But back to planking...I SEE the end of the tunnel so to speak, at least with the first layer...only the equivalent of 9 planks left and that at the stern...boy was that damn bow with its stealers a beech.

Hope to have pictures uploaded soon.

Mike

Re: Hms Victory
 

In regards to the possible kit bashing of my Victory, it is pretty much an all or nothing proposition since the addition of the poop deck bulwark barricades would look pretty silly if I did not also add the foc'sle deck bulwarks.

But these additions bring up an additional prospect in that the foc'sle deck bulwarks add a visible depth or thickness to the hull that would otherwise not be evidenced.

Basically I would have to "line" all of the gun ports with square "tubes" or sleeves to a depth of 4 mm to 6 mm and then paint them red. If, at the end of these sleeves I install the blocks that will hold the dummy gun barrels then I will have an assembly that I "just" slide into the gun ports. I can then glue the bottom of the dummy gun barrel blocks to the plywood platform like I am suppose to do per the instructions.

I get a hull depth I didn't have before and the enclosed nature of these sleeves will eliminate any visual clues or distractions that the ship is of plank-on-bulkhead construction should someone decide to look closely into the ship's interior from the gun ports.

This additional work is not really a problem as I am more than willing to do it. If the sleeves extend out of the hull after installation then I can just sand them flush to the hull before I add the second layer of planking.

The only thing holding me back so far are the twelve cannons on the upper gun deck that will be visible from the waist of the ship. In this area I will need to install some interior planking to receive the interior ends of the sleeves in order to maintain the proper appearance of hull depth. Herein lies the problem...I have already installed the outer planking in this area along with the main deck and poop deck.

The quick and dirty method (sarcasm intended) is to pop the exterior planking and carefully fit the interior planking between the bulkheads for these twelve cannons. I can then reapply the exterior planking and then cut out the gun ports, being extremely careful that interior gunport is level and true to the exterior gun port...they will have to line up perfectly for this to work.

The second way to make this modification is to remove the exterior planking AND the two decks above the main gun deck. Lots more work...lots. I would have to be careful not to damage the bulkheads when I removed the decks. I would have to get plywood for the new decks. I would also have to EXACTLY re-cut all the deck openings, but especially those for the main and mizzen masts.

Like I said, a lot of work (either method)...for features not intended to be installed by the manufacturer, all the while running the risk of damaging the framework to an extent which might not be correctable.

The first proposed method of just popping the exterior planks runs the least risk to the model and can complete the additions necessary to bring the model up to most of the 1805 "standards". The downside of this method is the possibility that the interior planking will look sloppily installed and/or the openings for the gun ports won't lineup properly.

There are three somewhat compelling reasons that I am even remotely thinking about the second method, that of also popping quarter and poop decks.

Firstly, I followed Mantua's directions for deck planking and installed 1 mm x 3 mm walnut on all of the decks. Walnut has a dark color that works fine with the natural wood color scheme that Mantua built into their prototype. Removing the decks would allow me to plank the new decks, and replank the main gun deck (?), with a lighter colored wood (Tanganyka or Pear ?). This lighter colored decking would work much better with the 1805 color scheme of black and yellow than the currently installed walnut decking would.

The second reason is that with the main deck removed the rigging for the twelve cannons would now be possible where before it was not possible. The placement of the shot garlands and any other gun related accessories would now be oh-so-much easier.

The third reason to pop the decks is that I would get access to the quarter deck area under the poop deck which I do not have now. With the poop deck removed I could get rid of those horrible photo engraved pieces of painted metal that represent the doors and walls to the quarter galleries and replace them with something better looking. I could also install a proper ship's wheel assembly and steering mechanism. I could also then install the aft (Main) companionway and ladder behind the ships wheel

All of these modifications would ensure that the portions of the 1805 configuration currently hidden or inaccessible could be corrected for and thus bringing the entire model, so far as constructed, up to historical accuracy.

The problem with reaping great rewards is that these great rewards are usually accompanied by great risks or expenses in time and money. By popping the decks I risk damage to the bulkheads that would be otherwise avoidable. Popping the decks will also require me, as I said earlier, to exactly duplicate the location of the deck openings. Misalignment for the mast's access locations could be catastrophic.

Thoughts?

Mike

Re: Hms Victory
 

The first layer of hull planking is done...YEAH...at least the area below the upper gun deck (more on that later). I will try to post photographs within the body of the text...about right here



I think it worked...

Several things to note about the first layer of planking.

First is what I call "plank creep". This is where the distance between bulkheads appeared to increase the further down the hull I went, but was especially prevalent at the bow and stern areas of the hull. Presumably this effect is the result of the accumulation of tapered plank being put upon tapered plank so that it is the plank length that is actually increasing due to the increasing sweep of the planks rather than distances increasing between bulkheads.

Second, was that as the angle of the plank keep increasing with respect to the horizontal, the desired width of the plank, as measured perpindicular to the length of the plank, actually resulted in a plank that was too large or wide. These oversized plank widths were the results of the plank crossing the bulkhead at an angle less than 90 degrees from horizontal in ever increasing amounts so that the amount of plank that actually covered the bulkhead was greater than what was desired...or required. This is one of the reasons why the ends of my tapers were all over the place width-wise.

Thirdly, that as the difference between the plank width I thought I wanted and the plank width that was actually required continued to increase I found out that this difference in widths was not only a function of how many planks had already been installed it was also a function of where I was laterally on the plank I was currently working on. In effect, the greatest differences in widths were found at the ends of the planks that were installed the furthest from the start of the planking process.

Fourth, I found that it was easier to shape eight year old basswood than it was to shape eight year old lime wood. I also found that I might actually be allergic to lime wood as my nose really started to get runny whenever I sanded the lime wood.

Fifth, as I was closing up the hull I found that I had to install several stealers at the bow in order maintain the planks at half their original width. At the end I had to initially install 6 planks at the bow and then at the third bulkhead I had to install 3 stealers. The calculations of where and how wide those stealers had to be WAS NOT fun. Right now I am thinking that the reason I had to install these stealers was solely based on my lack of understanding on how the angles that the planks take effect the planks width.

Anyway...I done...I've drained the hull several times and I am in the process of scraping and sanding it into proper shape.

Hope everbody had some happy holidays and you & yours managed to stay safe while doing so.

Mike

Re: Hms Victory
 

Mike, that's a heckuva job you're doing on the Victory! You're work is really inspiring me.
Keep them pics coming, you're doing great.
Dave