Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

This is a thread specific to the Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways, but relevant comments from other modeling experiences are welcome.

freewheelinguy and I are both in the early stages with this model, which seems to be nearly as common as a Bluenose. He made mention of the great customer service from Model Expo, replacing a broken bulkhead, and after we exchanged some emails on the topic, we agreed to start this thread to share what we'd discussed and open it up for more to join in.

My next post contains the messages we've exchanged up to this point.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

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1/13/2005, 3:12pm
From tomse3
To freewheelinguy

I saw from your post in the Model Shipways thread that you'd broken a bulkhead when working on the Armed Virginia Sloop.

I think you and I are at nearly the same stage on the same model ... My next step is to put in the deck beams for the subdecks, before starting the planking. This will be my first "serious" wooden ship model, so I'm doing a lot of study.

I, too, broke bulkheads ... and I figured out how to repair them. Bulkheads A and B have particularly vulnerable extensions. I ended up cutting them off in a straight line that extended below deck level about an inch, gluing in some of strip wood and sanding back to the right profile. I did something similar for bulkhead extensions that were severly out of line ... sometimes by gluing additional wood (such as basswood plank) and sanding away most of the original; sometimes just replacing the whole thing.

A major bonus to this fix is that the grain of the bulkhead extensions is running the right way ... some of those laser-cut bulkhead extensions have grain at 45 degrees to the direction of the extension, making them very weak.

I also broke a bulkhead where it joined the keel .. snapped it right in half. At that point I decided to follow some of the advice I'd read on planking. I went to Michael's and bought a bag of mixed balsa stuff, and glued filler blocks between all the bulkheads. This not only reinforced the whole structure, but sanding them down helped guide the correct beveling of the bulkhead edges, making for more sure planking. I'll still be fastening the planks primarily to bulkheads, but I won't have to worry about planks showing discrete bends around them.

I've found that learning how to repair broken pieces is a major way to boost my modeling skills.

Drop me a line if you have any questions or problems. I may not have an answer, but at least I'll know where you're coming from.

- Tom

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1/14/2005, 12:07pm
To tomse3
From freewheelinguy

Yes, I think we're just about at the same stage of construction. This is my first attempt, also of a plank on bulkhead model. Don't know if you know about this site, but I'm building mine using a Practicum developed for this model at website
http://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/
It's been very helpful. It's his approach of how to successfully build this and other models. Don't know if you have mounted the subdeck yet, but I can tell you it's very fragile. Broke off numerous edge pieces while fairing the hull.

Happy shipbuilding,
Len

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1/14/2005, 5:15pm
From tomse3
To freewheelinguy

I was wondering about that Practicum, since I'm a relative beginner too. They also sell a CD of pictures of the process ... any recommendation there?

I'm half way through installing the subdeck beams, but I've already done most of the hull fairing as part of the balsa filler block work between bulkheads.

Actually, "filler block" is a bit of a misnomer. The stern portion has blocks that completly fill the space between the bulkheads, but for the rest I just used diagonal blocks that would fill between the keel and the deck line.

After I finished sanding the blocks, I smeared some DAP lightweight spackle over the hull and sanded it after it dried. This gave me a first-cut at fairing the hull; I then addressed out-of-alignment bulkheads, re-spackled and re-sanded. I'm pretty happy with the result, although it's ugly. Glad it'll be planked.

So, given that, do you think I'll have problems with the subdeck?

I'm wondering if we should share this thread with the rest. Would you like to start one? Would you like me to start one? Or would you rather leave it as private?

================================================== =
1/14/2005, 8:03pm
To tomse3
From freewheelinguy

I have no problem sharing these messages with anyone. Might be helpful to others.

Not sure about the photo CD's and what they contain, but I highly recommend the Practicum. They may contain only the photo's of this prac or maybe more detail.

Once we mounted the bulkheads we added the subdecks which gave rigidity to them. Then we faired the hull.

He had us do the rabbet for the keel differently then instructed in the plans. On his webpage he gives a sample chapter for each ship. Our ship has Chapter 3. I'm in Chapter 1 adding the bow filler blocks. If you send me your email I can forward this Chapter, this will give you a good idea of how he did the ship up to where we are. I can also take pictures of what I've done so far.

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

You're right that the model's in need of support in the early stages. Using the subdeck for that support is a risky approach, but the Practicum you're following has a stated constraint of building the kit as-is, so I guess that was their only option.

I'm attaching a shot of the balsa "filler block" approach I garnered from this website's 12-step article on planking. I took the cheap route and, except for the first bow and last three stern slots, just used diagonal balsa blocks to stretch from the bearding line toward the deck level. I have to admit that I'm cutting corners here (literally :wink: ). I was trying to stretch my supply of balsa.

When I decided to go this route, I realized two things: 1) it would slow me down a lot; and 2) that's not a bad thing. The process of building the model is my main joy, so anything that would stretch the time (while still making visible progress) would help me savor the experience even more. Kinda like mileage ... more enjoyment per kit dollar.

It took a while, but I got lots of experience "fine tuning" blocks thicknesses to fit between the bulkheads.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

The attached picture shows the hull after spackling and sanding. You can see where it filled out areas that would have been too low. It really gives me a lot more confidence that my planking will follow the right lines, particularly in the bow and stern.

Ben Lankford, who did the drawings and instruction book for the Model Shipways kit, also sells a book called "How to Build First-rate Ship Models From Kits". I got it as part of a "package deal" when I bought this kit. I used the kind of spackle he recommends in that book: DAP Lightweight Spackling ("Fast 'N Final") It goes on with minimal mess, cleans up with water and doesn't crack or shrink. Its finished consistency is approximately that of balsa, which is both good and bad. On the up side, it makes for consistent sanding between bulkheads. On the down side, it's vulnerable to later knicks and scratches, but since it's going to be planked over, that's not a real worry.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

That is good stuff to use. Have you ever tried "Bondo"? See this old post - "Re: Modeling Paste ". Great for the final smoothing before painting. Sands down to a very fine feathered edge.

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi Tom,

That's great what you did. I'm also feeling apprehensive in sending Chapter 1. I'll be posting a picture of my model once I complete chapter one.

Your model looks great, but it looks like a lot of extra work. Adding the subdeck did add alot of rigidity to the bulkheads and made it fairly easy to fair them. And your right, it's not about finishing fast but the enjoyment of the experience.

Len

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

OK, I'm officially ready to start the planking. When I realized I'd done all the prep work, I grabbed my camera and snapped things just as they were, to document the transition. I didn't mean it to look like an ad for Titebond II. I'd just finished putting in the subdeck and waterways, it just happend to be sitting there when I took the shot.

I have to admit that I prefer to limit my CA use to small things that are hard to clamp and won't be stressed. CA is so brittle that I am a bit leery of it when working with wood, since wood "moves" with changes in humidity.

I like the longer open time that Titebond gives me ... I can apply glue to both surfaces without hurrying. The clamping time can be minimized if I keep the glue on each surface to just a very thin smear (the less glue in the joint, the stronger to bond). I let each surface air dry for up to a minute before I press them together. When I glued in the subdeck and waterways, I could hand-press the pieces for the couple of minutes it took for the glue to set, and "fine tune" the alignment where needed during that time. When cured, the glue remains slightly rubbery, so it continues to hold even if the wood moves.


Len, the kit's instructions say to start planking with the transom and counter. Is that what your practicum does too?

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

In his instructions he starts with a 1/4inch plank (1/8inch above and below the subdeck) starting at the bow beveling it and placing into the rabbet and running aft using the provided pins to secure to bulkheads. Prior to doing this he puts a centerline on the inside of the plank, so you can see that your centered. He says he starts here because its the weakest point on the bulkheads. This is different than the plans. Then he mounts a 1/8inch plank above this, adds the waterways inside, then planks the transom. Hope this helps.

I've finished Chapter 1 and am posting photo's once I finish this email.

Take care,
Len

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Interesting approach. Sounds like he's still dealing with the fragility of the keel & bulkhead structure.

Based on what you described, that plank doesn't match up to the wale, which should have a top edge even with the top of the waterways. Since the waterways were 1/16" above the subdeck, your plank will either need to be removed or you'll have to drill through it for the scuppers.

I'm looking forward to seeing what yours looks like.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

I not that far yet, but he has the wale top even with that first 1/4inch plank. He talks about the suppers in Chapter 3 which is the preview chapter for this Practicum. You can go there and check out how he addresses this.

I've posted the photo's in my album: Freewheelinguy's

Armed Virginia Sloop Practicum
 

I went ahead and bought the $25 photo CD from the Lauck Street Shipyart practicum. What finally tipped the balance was frustration with my sloop's stern construction

The drawings and instructions that came with the kit were correct as far as they went, but I just needed to see some pictures to figure out why my initial planking didn't seem quite right.

It turns out that the instructions make the assumption that you are not a complete novice, so you just _know_ that the counter planking starts at the wing transom. Of course, if this was a pank-on-frame construction it would be clearer, but where POF would have stern framing below the wing transom, this one's got a filler block. After fairing, it was hard to see where they'd joined, since they came from the same piece of stock, and the significance of the wing transom is lost to the uninitiated.

So ... I've ripped off and re-built the transom planks maybe three times, but based on Bob Hunt's practicum photos, I think I'm finally back on track.

It's interesting to see the different approach that the practicum takes. It diverges from the kit's instructions in surprising ways. The construction sequence is altered, as was mentioned in an earlier posting. In the sequence for building up the transom, the practicum has you install the stern sub-deck first. The kit has you build up the transom long before you get to the subdeck. By following the kit, you get a slight "saddle" shape to the stern decking, with a very small upward sweep toward the stern. With the practicum, you don't get this final upward sweep, as the bend of the subdeck forces a simple curve.

In other divergences, the gunport sills are added after the hull and ceiling planking, and I couldnt' tell from the photos how he'd deal with the planking gap in the sweep ports, which the kit has you fill in prior to planking. Also, the first layer of basswood planking of the wales is intentionally out of sync with the final layer of walnut planking . (The photos also showed final planking butts lined up on alternate planks, rather than every fourth. Go figure.)

I guess the lesson here is that, even with kits, each modeler's final product is going to be distinctive in more ways than you'd see with plastic kits. I think that's one of the big draws for me toward wooden modeling - there's more freedom for kit bashing.


- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi Jerry, Welcome Aboard.
I never followed a practicum, but I understand that the "College" is very good.
Yes, why don't you post it. It may be of help to a lot of modelers.

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Update- things are going slow.
Working on fairing the inner bulkhead extensions, then I'll be mounting the waterways. I can see now why Bob had us add two outer planks first. I'm sure I would have snapped several in this process without them. Following will be planking the stern transom. Hopefully, I won't run into the problems you did.

I'm very impressed with Bob's practicum. Being a novice, building without it, I'm sure I would have been very frustrated by now. And possibly just given up, although I hope not. It is tedious work, but I find it very rewarding.

Did Bob include the AVS Planking Scheme drawing with the Photo pack?

Take care,
Len

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

No, the Photo pack was just that - photos, no drawings. I guess they're considered part of the practicum text itself.

Yes, those bulkhead extensions are pretty fragile. In retrospect, I think my breaking one (ok, several) of them early on was really good for me. It forced me to think outside the (kit) box and come up with a viable fix, and got me more into a "kit bash" frame of mind.

I'm still following the kit's build sequence, but I feel much more free about it. I'm not afraid to look at something and say, "That's not quite right." and then tear it out, re-create the parts and go at it again.

Also, so far I'm still using mostly Titebond II rather than CA, so taking something apart an hour later is a bit easier. The other thing this glue does is force a more methodical pace, so I have time to back up and really look at how things are shaping up.

I've completed the counter and transom planking (both layers), and last night I finished up the fashion pieces and taffrail and got started on the port wale.

I must say that planking the stern was a most gentle introduction to planking and spiling. It started with straight, flat panks across the counter, then moved into very minimally bent and spiled planks around the stern lights. Nice little baby steps for a novice.

Here's a general newbie question for the more experienced modelers: Is the wale strake generally modeled as single plank from stem to stern? I seem to remember seeing scarfing patterns for wale strakes that would mean there would be no visible butts as one sees on the lower hull planking. What's the common approach for 1:48 scale models?

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi folks,

I too am a student of the College. Before I chose this avenue of learning I was lost trying to build the AL Swift 1805. I'm now in chapter 2 of the AVS practicum and combined with reading some great books and reading online forums, I now have a much better grasp of the concept of model shipwrighting.
I'm currently having a challenge with the counter planking on the stern. My first try, I failed to thoroughly read and pay attention to what the practicum was instructing. Once I realized the counter planks stop flush with the bottom of the 1/4" wale plank I was finally starting to get it:) Now I just need to make sure the walnut planks and the arched fashion pieces all work out nice and neat.
Is it just me or does anyone else find one reason wood ship building is so much fun is because it is so challenging?

Don

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi Don, and welcome!

Yes, the stern planking was a bit of a challenge ... as I mentioned above, it took me three tries before I was satisfied. After all that hassle, the fashion piece seemed to just come together easily. I'm delaying thinning the arch to its final thickness until I get the final layer of walnut on the black strake, but I'm pleased with how it all shaped up.

I also decided to cut the taffrail from the walnut sheet that holds the main rails. It's the right thickness, and the section of the sheet between the laser cut main rails offers a good choice of a curved piece to bring down to the sweep of the taffrail.

And yes, the fun is in the challenges of figuring things out, inventing new techniques, etc. This weekend I hope to have some time to come up with a jig that will help me assemble the cannon carriages consistenly and squarely.

Not that I'm that far along in the AVS ... At this point I'm shaping the black strakes, locating and carving their scuppers before I glue them in place.

Glad you have you join us, Don. It sounds like you, Len and I are all working in approximately the same phase of the kit.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Progress Report:

I've attached a couple of shots of where I am tonight. They show the port black strake clamped for gluing; the view's from the starboard side, where you can see the other black strake. I tried to show some of the stern planking in the second shot.

Since I'm using Titebond rather than CA, I needed a lot of clamps. I found a pack of clothes pins in the local supermarket, and they seem to be sufficient. I've trimmed the claming faces of about half of them, cutting back 45 degrees from the front contact surfaces. This let me set some clamps at right angles to the hull, catching the upper edge of the black strake and the lower edge of the wale, to make sure they stayed butted together during glue-up. (These don't show too well in the photos, but you can make them out in the first shot.)

In the foreground of the shots you can see my quick & dirty "scupper tool". I'd puzzled a bit over how to get consistent scuppers. I ended up trimming some scrap to a short length with a cross-section that matched the scuppers. I then glued sandpaper to it, and glued it to another bit of scrap that had a straight edge. I then held the plank at right angles to the tool and started sanding, keeping it aligned with my fingers sliding along the tool's edge. I worked each scupper until the plank hit the wood on either side of the sanding bit. Nice & easy, and a consistent shape and depth.

My scuppers don't exactly match the plans (not quite as squat as what the plans show) but I'm satisfied. As the saying goes, "If you can't be right, be neat."

The dreaded design flaw.
 

The AVS kit has a notorious "design flaw" that Lauck Street Practicum describes in its "free sample" extract. In it there's considerable discussion of the problem aligning the cannons if the spirketing plank is installed with the height as shown. This plank needs to be 1/16" narrower than the specified 3/16". This is revealed in the Practicum as the ceiling planking is being planned.

In the Practicum, Bob Hunt takes pains to build up a cannon ahead of time and prototype its position on the deck relative to the gun ports. He teaches a very important lesson here, to look ahead and understand where things will be fitting together later.

Here's another instance where the difference between the kit's and the Practicum's build sequence makes for a different modeling experience. I don't have all of the Practicum, but based on the free sample portion of the text and the photo CD that I bought, I didn't see much attention paid to the black strake (the one that sits atop the main wale and is the outlet for the scuppers). In fact, the Practicum's basswood layer at the wales were intentionally wider and "higher up" than the external walnut planking would be, effectively erasing the black strake at the basswood layer. And the Practicum's photos show no scupper holes in the external planking at the time the spirketing plank is installed atop the waterways.

I'm following the kit's instruction sequence, and after installing the black strake I immediately saw the issue that Hunt would encounter later, but on the basis of the external planking alone.

The seam between the wales and the black strake has to line up with the top of the waterways (which had been installed earlier). This provides one of the fixed reference points for planking, much like the garboard strake and the sheer strake.

There's one other reference point I noted, relative to the black strake: its top edge lines up with the top of the stem. However, the distance from the top of the waterway to the top of the stem is only 1/8". This confirms Hunt's design flaw discovery, but at a much earlier point in the construction. And for those who choose to lay the basswood layer to match as closely as possible the final walnut layer, it means the black strake has to be 1/16" narrower, as will the spirketing plank later on.

The need for this adjustment is confirmed when the kits instructions mention that the top of the black strake forms the bottom sill of the gun ports. The kit's earlier placement of the gun port filler pieces falls 1/16" below the edge of the installed black strake.

I tried to determine from Ben Lankford's plans where things might have drifted off. As near as I can tell, I think he expected the waterways to be 1/16" lower than they are. I'd guess that the keel and bulkheads are off from the get-go. Mistaking the deck plank top surface for the subdeck bottom surface during the drafting process would account for it.

This also reiterates another lesson from Bob Hunt: Don't assume that the instructions or laser-cut parts that come with a kit are 100% accurate.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

This weekend I'm about to complete the first layer of outboard planking above the wales.

One detail that I'm not seeing clearly in any resources or photos is the end-grain of the planking that extends from the quarter deck to just above the aft sweep port. I guess I'll just plan for a bit of walnut facing on the forward edge. (Any other suggestions are welcome.)

I'm still undecided about how I'll paint the model. I hate to cover up good walnut and I love the look of wood, but I also like the paint scheme of the inboard areas. I'll have to make up my mind at some point.

My next step will be to start on the planking between the wales and the keel. I expect to be in this phase for a while.

- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

My AVS arrived last night and I took the time to check all the parts. One bundle of wood strips was missing, but it sure was an education checking through everything. I'll start building soon, but I expect to be slow - lots of stuff going on in the Army right now, so have to take time when I can.

I also bought the Fair-a-Frame and will put that thing together first.
Dan

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Welcome to the group, Dan. Model Shipways is real good with replacing missing or damaged parts. Their policy is to replace any with no questions asked. I broke a bulkhead and my walnut keel was warped. Filled out the form online at their website and received replacements in a few days.

Status on my model is I'm finishing the second planking on the transom (Chapter 2 of Bob Hunt's Freshman Practicum). I'm finding that the walnut planking is very easy to split. Especially, when making the tiny pieces between the stern window.

Happy modeling,
Len

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

I have received some questions regarding how I worked up the hull with balsa filler blocks, and I thought I'd share my answers here.

1. Did you shape the frames before you installed balsa?

My decision to do the balsa filler blocks came late ... I'd glued the bulkheads into place, carved and shaped the basswood filler blocks at the bow and faired the frames. I hate to admit it, but I decided to go that route because, while working on shaping the wing transom and the filler block below it, I wasn't paying attention to how I was holding the ship, and snapped a mid-ship bulkhead off at the keel. #-o That wasn't the first bulkhead I'd broken, and I figured out that gluing it back wouldn't be strong enough. So I went to my local Michael's and bought one of those random grab-bags of balsa from Midwest. The resulting construction is not only stronger, but I've found that the balsa surface between the bulkheads is great for planking. I can easily push T-pins into it along the open side of a plank to keep it flush against the previous plank during glue-up.

(I've since seen comments on other forums about the weakness of the 3/16" basswood bulkheads that Model Shipways uses. It made me feel a bit less of a klutz for having broken them.)


>2. Did you use balsa for the bow filler block or the kit supplied wood?

I used the supplied basswood. :idea: I also used another trick I came across while scanning ship modeling forums, for shaping the bow filler blocks. Using some of the spare wood from one of the bulkhead sheets, I duplicated the center profile former from the bow to just fore of the bulkhead B slot. I then slipped the A bulkhead into this "fake" bow, glued the blocks to the bulkhead (but NOT the fake bow) and then rough-shaped the blocks. This allowed me to go at it from all kinds of angles that wouldn't have been possible if the full ship (and walnut stem!) had been along for the ride. When I'd got it most of the way, I slipped the A bulkhead, with attached blocks, back onto the profile former for final glue-up and fairing.


>3. When the frames didn't quite reach the bearding line, did you make repairs before adding balsa?

I dunno ... I guess I took my bearding line from the bulkheads. I didn't see enough discrepancy between the parts and the plans to worry about it. (Maybe I wasn't paying attention. :yikes: )

>4. What sanding method did you use? Hand or block

I bought my kit directly from Model Shipways, and they had (have?) a package deal where you get the kit, a book by Ben Langford and a set of tools. In the tool kit was a nice 1" X 5" sanding block with rounded ends. That's what I used. Particularly when you're sanding a surface of mixed woods, you want to avoid hand sanding because you'll dip into the softer woods and end up with very nicely rounded lumps.


- Tom

Planking Plans don't make sense to me.
 

I've finished the first layer of planking from the shear line to the bottom of what's labeled Belt A on the plans. I figured I'd next tackle Belt C which starts with the garboard strake along the keel, and move up to finish with Belt B.

My first order of business is to tack battens in place to define the line between Belt B and Belt C.

I started ticking off the marks for the upper edge of Belt C, beginning at the bow and working back. When I got to the mid-ship bulkhead, I was surprised to see a big discrepancy between the fore and aft planking views (Plan Sheet 2).

At bulkhead G, the outermost bulkhead shown in the fore planking view, Belt C consists of the garboard strake plus two planks. This matches the instruction book's description of Belt C on page 17: "This belt consists of the garboard strake a little wider than 3/16" and two broad strakes about 3/16" wide amidships."

However, at bulkhead H, the outermost bulkhead shown in the aft planking view, Belt C includes three strakes above the garboard strake instead of two. :no:

So I figured the plank line in the aft planking view flagged as the divider between Belt C and Belt B must be mis-marked: it must be the next lower line.

Ticking off the distances near the stern from the planking profile view at first seemed to confirm this, although nothing on the plans seemed to exactly match up. But then that didn't make sense after all, because Belt B wouldn't match its description on the same page of the instruction booklet: "Belts A and B each include six equal width planks amidships ..." and both the fore and aft mid-ship planking views show six planks for Belts A and B. If I choose the lower line for the B-C divider from the afte view, Belt B has six planks in the fore panking view and seven in the aft planking view. :yikes:

So nothing's adding up. The aft planking view has one more strake at midships than the fore planking view. I'm a bit at a loss as to how to position the battens that will guide my dividing line between belts B and C, particularly at the bow. :=((

Has anybody got any insight into this? If not, I'm just going to come up with my own solution and not expect the plans to provide accurate planking measurements.

I think perhaps I should go to bed and not try to force a solution tonight.

- Tom

Solving my planing problem
 

Once again I am reminded that there's a fair amount of "scratch" even with an "entry level" kit.

I took stock of my situation with the planking, and determined that the best approach would be to figure things out myself. I took a lot of measurements, comparing the width of the A and B bands on the plans (they're roughly equal), the width of my finished A band, where a similar-width B band would end, and how much space was left for the C band.

Based on what I've completed so far, I figured that my C band would, at midships, have to consist of three 1/4" wide planks, with some narrowing toward the bow and with two stealers toward the stern.

I then reviewed what basswood I had left, and realized that I'd used the 3/16" almost exclusively for the A planking band. Where I probably should have used some 3/4" stock and done more spiling, I edge-bent instead. If I am to have enough of the 3/16" planking left for the decking, I'm going to have to finish up the rest of the hull planking using the 1/4" and 1/8" basswood strips. I'm sure I'll have enough stock ... I'll just be honing my spiling skills a bit more than I'd expected. :=)

The only siginificant departure of my approach from the written instructions is the wider two planks above the garboard strake, but looking at the profile view of the planking plan (sheet 2) it looks like that's what they've got going there too. This is especially visible at the stern where, thanks to a couple of stealers, Band C flares out into five planks that are each just a shave away from a full 1/4".

I find I'm still using Titebond almost exclusively ... the only place I've used CA is to "tack down" the stern ends of planks after their sharp bend below the wing transom. I'm more comfortable with a glue that gives me time to "fine tune" a plank's position, and that forces me to take my time and think about what I'm doing.

Maybe after I've done a few more models I'll feel more at ease with the process and be happy with the speedier pace of CA, but for now I feel like I'm not ready to take the training wheels off my bike.

Back to work. :build:

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

I think I'm the slowest guy on God's green earth. I finally finished putting in balsa filler and fairing the frame - except for the filler pieces at the stem, which I'm working on.

When I trimmed my main deck to accommodate the actual location of extensions, it split with the grain between extension openings. I'm considering just installing it with those tiny pieces missing. I'll have to make up for their thickness later. It's not too bad as a whole.

The Cabin deck and quarter deck seemed to work out fine. I'll attach all the decks once I'm finished with the stem filler pieces.

I've been nipping and tucking here and there to make things fit, but have the nagging suspicion that I'll be paying for it later. I think planking this hull is going to be a really interesting process.

I'm also taking the freshman course, and will be following the things as described there, but I'm learning a lot of things from everyone, especially tomse3, regarding techniques and methods that help in the construction.

I hope to post some pictures at things move along. I have to admit, I haven't had so much fun in a long time - adult play, what a great thing! Dan

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi Dan,

The sub deck is very fragile. I snapped several pieces of the subdeck at the bulkhead extensions, while fairing the hull. I would hold the hull in my hands upside down while fairing and then forgetting where my hands were I'd hear the snap of another piece of subdeck. I re-glued those back on, but found later in the process of planking the hull and adding the interior waterways that the area between doesn't serve any purpose.

I've just completed Chapter 2 and will be posting pictures soon. Building up the transom and the first layer of planking took quite a long time. I snapped a couple of bulkhead extensions also, but now thats shored up by the addition of the exterior planking. This is my first attempt on planking and I'm fairly satisfied with the results. I have some areas I'm not completely satisfied with, but I'll get better as I learn. I do believe that if it wasn't for Bob Hunts practicum I would have been much more frustrated with attempting to build this model with just the contained plans. It was a long process getting through Chapter 2, but its nice to see the model taking shape. I have a concern about an area at the counter where the second level of planking meets, but hopefully that will be rectified as the building process continues.

This is a very enjoyable, although frustrating at times pastime. We'll just keep prodding along and hopefully when we're finished it will resemble the picture on the box.

Happy modeling,
Len

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hello, Len,

Although I am taking the course and following that sequence (in theory) I am also practicing some things along the way that I learn from others, especially tomse3. I put in the balsa filler blocks too, but my sanding job didn't turn out nearly as neat as Tom's. I'm getting ready to put in the knighthead and timberhead pieces then move on, but am looking ahead.

I've read the first 2/3 of Frank Mastini's book "Ship Modeling Simplified" and find his techniques interesting, particularly his method of planking the deck. I have a couple of questions and welcome thoughts from anyone:

1. Why not just plank the deck solidly (with the exception of the mast joint opening) without framing around deck objects - then just sand those fixtures including the waterway to the correct height when assembled and glue them to the deck in the correct position? If you did what I'm thinking the margin around the deck would not exist at all. Maybe it's a matter of following the building sequence from a purist perspective following the methods of the era in which the original was constructed. Obviously, it would also alter the modeling experience too, but I was wondering if anyone has other thoughts on it.

2. Also looking at Frank Mastini's approach, I think he would use the bulkhead extensions for planking, but be sure his planks didn't stick to the extensions. Once his planking above the deckline was in place, he would saw off the extensions at the deckline and remove ther.

Then he would install vertical planking the full width of the deck planks, then run internal longitudinal strakes making a total of 3 layers - ending up with an internal finish on the deck side similar to what we'll end up with this kit. My guess is that he'd simply cut his scupers and canon ports through his final finish. Has anyone read Frank Mastini's book? If so is that your take on what technique he might use?

Just interested. I'll probably follow the exact approach of the course from here on in regardless of what I might be wondering.

Dan

First outer planking layer complete.
 

I finished up the basswood layer of planking last night. I've sanded it a fair amount ... sufficient for under the walnut layer.

I followed the kit's recommendation to do the first layer as if it would show, following the shipwright's planking rules. I figured I'd need the practice, and it wasn't until I got near the end that I began to feel confident that I probably wouldn't mess up the final walnut layer too badly. :yikes:

I also got around to putting together an album in the member galleries. The file names have the photo date embedded in them in the form YYYYMMDD, so you can see how long it took me to get from one stage to the next.

Here's a sampling of pictures from my album: ...





One thing I've become rather obsessive about is trying to get a decent shot of the stern, because when I was building it I never felt I had a good set of images to go by. So here are some images, but keep in mind they'll only show you how I built the stern, not necessarily how it's really supposed to be done. :=)





- Tom

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Hi Tom!

Congratulations!! Looks really good, I'm on my way to view your album!

Keep up the great work!

Bill

Re: Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways
 

Tom,

Great job. I like how your stern area turned out. I have a problem with mine. On the lowest plank of the counter my hull is tapered too much because of this I rounded off this plank too much. When I installed the whale it's not meeting correctly. I may have to remove the counter's lowest plank and add some filler to the hull to achieve the right placement. RIght now the whale plank has to bend too severely to meet with the fashion piece on the counter. While I'm still pondering what to do I went forward and added the inner bulwarks. I had problems with splitting the ends of the walnut planks when squaring out the gun ports. These planks don't like to be sanded in a back and forth motion. On advisement from the Practicum forum I found you must use a new #11 X-acto blade. Sharpness is imperative. I see you reamed out the hull for the suppers. They look great. I only cut them in on the spirketing plank and likewise on the black strake.

It's very rewarding to see the model taking shape, but a slow and tedious process. I'm really enjoying it. What a great hobby.

Happy modeling,
Len

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

WOW Tom! . . . what a fantastic planking job. That thing is beautiful and the photos are superb.

To get things square and true, I purchased the fair-a-frame. I used it on this model, but I have to tell you, I'm not at all impressed with the outcomes it created. I'm probably going to use a different method of squaring things up in the future. The fair-a-frame probably has some value for filler and scrap wood, so I won't throw it out. Anyone else have this experience?

I hate to admit this by putting it on the forum, but I'm going to confess. Something happened that left the main deck appearing as if it is warped toward the port side in terms of how the main deck matches up with the quarterdeck. I measured the bulwark distances and the quarterdeck width to see what was really up, and the measurements show it to be only about 1/64" to 1/32" out of allignment.

Unfortunately on the starboard side the waterway is about 1/8" short of meeting the quarterdeck when the port side is exactly flush with it. I will probably do a slight repair with a wedge shaped piece of balsa, trim it to fit so that the front of the quarterdeck is perfectly verticle or as nearly as possible, then harden it with CA.

Frank Mastini would probably throw the whole thing out, but I'm going to work around it. I think it will create a little more work to fit things since the hull won't be esactly the same on both sides.

Otherwise I'm slowly installing the first planking on the transome. I'm having fun.
Dan

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

Dan,

Your's is looking great. You seem to have been more careful about your balsa filler blocks that I was, and your hull fairing looks really good.

I'm trying to understand your deck alignment issue. I get the impression that the bulkhead that forms the front edge of the quarterdeck may be out of alignment, but if it's as small a distance as you indicate, this can be addressed when you do the deck and quarterdeck planking. The planks will be 3/32" thick, so after you plank the front edge of the quarter deck you could sand it back square. (This assumes I understand the problem, of course.)

If you were able to somehow measure the current thickness of my now-sanded and smoothed first layer of hull planks, you'd find their thickness would vary from place to place. I suspect in some places the variance is quite sugnificant. The first layer's thick enough to allow for this final adjustment to the hull fairing before applying the walnut veneer.

Last night I steamed the walnut for the wales and clamped them in place (no glue) to let them dry overnight. I may get a chance to glue them down tonight ... but other things have been demanding of my time lately.

Life happens.

- Tom

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

I planked the transom and counter this weekend with both layers (photos not posted yet). Instead of keeping the windows level, I decided to let their base partially follow the curving contour of the transom-counter knuckle. It turned out okay, but I’m not sure how much I like the visual result. I definitely had trouble with making the walnut planking around the window frame edges come out nicely.

I read everyone’s notes on making sure to glue the edges of walnut to prevent splitting. I’m not sure what happened but discovered some surprising outcomes. Bob Hunt’s practicum says to soak the walnut planks and use CA glue, because it reacts well with moist wood and creates a solid bond on all surfaces. Unfortunately I discovered quite the opposite.

I first noticed it on the top plank over the transom when I bumped an edge. Half the plank jumped away from the basswood and I was able to remove it completely by wedging a knife blade between the walnut and basswood planks. Examining the glue pattern, I could see that it stuck only in the center of the plank and not on the edges. I can’t figure out what happened: moist wood that caused the glue to set up too rapidly so that it was already hard the moment later when I applied pressure to the edges, or walnut is just hard to get glue to adhere to.

I’m definitely planning to use a different gluing technique when planking the hull, at least when I do the walnut layer. Any suggestions? Did anyone else have similar problems with CA glue and walnut? I guess I'm going to be looking through the shop tips, and checking out the possible use of fly fishing head glue.

Dan

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

I keep expecting to reach a point where I switch over to CA, but so far I've used it very little. 99% of my gluing has been with Titebond II (probably because that's what I had on hand).

The times when I have found CA to be helpful is when I want to "tack down" the very end of a plank at the stem or under the counter before gluing the rest down. While holding the end of the plank tightly in place and aligned correctly, I let some CA seep into the joint through capilary action. (If that's not feasible, I use one of the thicker "gel" varieties of CA, which sets up slower but works great on wood.) The planks are often a bit damp because I've just steam-bent them, and this does accelerate the CA but interferes with the yellow glue. Once the CA'd end is set I let the plank hang there until it's fully dry, and then Titebond the rest of it into place.

I guess if I had the cleverness (and/or tools) to figure out how to clamp the plank ends into these tight spots, I'd have avoided CA, but I'm not up to holding something rock-steady for the 1/2 hour it'd take yellow glue to form a good bond.

One other benefit I've found using yellow glue: it's water based, so it slightly softens the wood (even the walnut veneer), helping it to conform to the curves of the hull.

It does demand patience, though. On a good evening I can complete, at most, two strakes per side.

- Tom

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

I have already read a lot about problems people have with planking their hulls. Now so far I have only built 4 plank on bulkhead models, 2 odf them being double planked. On the 2nd one (single planked with PVA glue, I had problems with badly cut frames and with the nails which prevented me from getting a smooth finish of the hull. For the 3d ship, I bought an Amati plank bender which tool proved to me the best tool I ever bought. With it, I hardly ever had to soak plank, so no shrinking problems afterwards. The 1st layer I glued with PVA temporarily held in place with pins, the 2nd one with contact glue applied on both sides and stuck together when contact dry. Planks are bent with the Amati bender to a curve than is a little sharper than needed. No pins, no steam, and after some 5 years, they show no sign of coming loose. Possible smears can be removed with a white spirit damped cloth, so you do not have places than will not take the stain. Who has ever tried this method?

JP

Dis-Armed Virginia Sloop
 

Friends,

In case you're wondering about how I'm progressing on my ship ... I'm not.

I've managed to break a bone in my right hand - the one that runs from the wrist to the base of the index finger. :yikes: (Spiral fracture to the second metacarpal, for you anatomists out there.)

When asked how I did it, my honest answer is always, "Doing something stupid." :bonk:

I'm hoping to get back to it in June, but until then I'm restricted to studying up on ships and modeling, hanging around the forums, and staring at my unfinshed AVS trying to figure out if there's anything I coud do one-handed. ](*,)

- Tom

Re: Dis-Armed Virginia Sloop
 

Don't worry, I won't ask how!! :-#
Sorry to hear that Tom. Well, you needed to take a 'break' from modeling anyway. (No pun intended, but I couldn't resist).
Recover soon, and keep us updated.
John

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

JP, Is the Amati plank bender a pliar tool that has a smooth surface on one side and a rectangular shape on the other side with the edge used to mark the inside surface in several places to form a bend?
Dan

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

Well, just in case anyone happens to be viewing this thread occasionally - I “finished” my first planking. I have to say, that my strakes are kind of crazy to look at, not flowing and beautiful like Tom and Len’s are. The hull does at least have good shape. I will need some fill in a couple of places and I’ll need to build up one side a bit near the stern - which didn’t turn out quite symmetrical to the eye.

I hope to get at least three photos loaded after I do the fill work that shows my stages of progress before any sanding after first planking completion, after sanding and a clear coat of sealer, and after build up of the stern. It’s a bit embarrassing to leave my work hanging out there for all to see, especially after the fantastic work others are doing. The reason I want to have them available, is so that if the end produce turns out well at all, others who are stone cold novices like me will not be discouraged by their progress.

I think I’d like to paint the hull a light color after the fill work, so I’ll have a clean, clear surface to draw patterns on for the second planking. My hope is to do a good enough job on this second one to at least give me a decision about whether or not to paint the final product. If it turns out at all like the first planking, then the decision is already made . . . a painting we will go.

I have at least 4 more boats I want to build including the Constitution and Rattlesnake, before I even have to figure out what’s next. I also have a household move from Tacoma, WA, to Ft Leonard Wood, MO early this fall. I’m not going to rush my project, but may have to take a short break when that time comes around.

Modeling is a great “vacation” from all the “have-tos” that seem to crowd in so closely sometimes. Since I’m an introvert at heart, but have an extrovert job - a solitary kind of past time is a great way to relax. No one believes I’m an introvert, but when I’m standing down, hiding in my workshop area, I know it well - because regeneration slowly seeps in.

Dan

Re: First outer planking layer complete.
 

Dan,

I look forward to seeing your photos. And keep in mind that my planking hides a few dirty little secrets too. :suspicious:

My hand has healed enough for me to work a little, so I started with the wales. The walnut wales are 1/16" thick. When I glued the starboard one in place, I realized that I'd thinned down the lower ends of the fashion pieces at the stern to less than 1/16", and they weren't flush with the wales.

So ... I selected some scrap 1/16" walnut from a sheet of laser-cut parts and built new fashion pieces.

When I went to tear out the old fashion pieces, I exposed one of those "dirty little secrets" at the stern. I had initially narrowed the hull too much at the base of the transom, where the wales terminate. To correct this, I put a second basswood plank layer over the first in the offending area, and then thinned that down to the corrected curve. Once I'd applied the walnut at the stern and glued in the fashion pieces, it didn't show and I'd forgotten all about it.

That's another good thing about this hobby ... you can finish with something that looks really nice, even if you make a lot of mistakes along the way.

- Tom