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Old 01-13-2010, 08:21 AM
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jvmcc (John) jvmcc is offline
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Default What sails?

Hi all,
I'm almost done with the standing rigging on my Endeavour, and my thoughts are turning to the running rigging. For some time I have been thinking that I would display my model as diorama, representing the Endeavour as she rode at anchor immediately after her arrival in Tahiti. My question is: what sails might be furled or unfurled. Robert Lightly's Endeavour in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich is displayed as a diorama, with one of the ship's boats over the side. I am assuming that the display of sails on my model would be similar to this. Am I correct?  (open in a blank window) (open in a blank window)

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Old 01-14-2010, 01:43 AM
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j_lefever (jim) j_lefever is offline
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Default Re: What sails?

John

The Greenwich model is indeed an excellent example and you're would be well advised to follow it's example, however you might want to keep in mind that there is no actual correct arrangement of sails in such a situation.

The model does a fine job of representing a vessel in the process of coming to anchor and furling the sails but in many ways this is also the model maker's composition, setting the sails at once as at rest and at the same time in a visually pleasing manner. It is as much an act of artistic license as it is accurate history.

You get to decide how your model will tell it's unique story.

Jim

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Old 01-14-2010, 11:15 AM
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jvmcc (John) jvmcc is offline
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Default Re: What sails?

Jim,
Thanks for responding. I'm taking your advice to heart. I't still amazes me how much work was constantly done and how many hands were involved to keep the sails trimmed for particular winds and weather. While I have your attention, I had made several posts years ago asking about the permanence of top ropes to raise and lower topmasts and topgallant masts. I had thought that once they were up, that was it for the voyage. My understanding now is that these masts were raised and lowered depending on the winds that the ship was in. Am I correct in this understanding? And, if the masts were up, do you think the blocks used to raise and lower them would be takien down. I ask because I'm at a point in the rigging of my model where I really won't be able to undo work that isn't accurate without great difficulty. I'm currently dealing with setting up the breast backstays on the fore and main topmasts, but I had already rattled down all the shrouds, stays and backstays up to topgallants, so fitting the breast backstays meant undoing a lot of rigging.

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Old 01-14-2010, 03:17 PM
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dolphinamica (Bob) dolphinamica is offline
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Default Re: What sails?

My wife and I sailed the S. Pacific for about 9 years aboard our 42’ Garden Porpoise ketch “Dolphinamica” and visited many islands and atolls. A great many of the S. Pacific islands have a coral reef that encircles the island. All the encircling reefs however have some sort of “pass”, or break in the reef that leads to the bay or lagoon beyond. Some of these passes are navigational and some are not, depending on the size of the boat and the courage (foolhardiness?) of the captain.

Although we had nautical charts that detailed pass entrances, Captain Cook did not. It always amazed me how he could have taken a deep draft boat like the Endeavor through these un-charted coral reef passes, and without an engine, I might add. Well, I read a book about his voyages and he did it by launching the long boat about a mile or more off a suspected pass. The crew of the long boat would scout out the pass, measure its width and depth and row on into the bay or lagoon and determine its suitability as an anchorage. They would then row back out, secure the long boat along side and act as pilots to navigate the Endeavor through the reef.

Robert Lightly's Endeavour paints a picture of the Endeavor ghosting along under topsails in a very light breeze, with courses clewed up, getting ready to drop anchor in a calm protected bay or lagoon. She has just enough way on to keep steerage and the long boat is tied along side, having done her work scouting out the pass.

Of course, she could just be in Portsmouth Harbor drying out her sails; please forgive me if I take a more romantic view.

As to your question about shipping or un-shipping masts, this was never done in response to or in anticipation of wind strength. The lines and blocks necessary to ship a mast would always be kept below and never permanently attached to the mast. My guess is that this tackle itself would not be permanent and was made up for the occasion. I suppose that today if you anticipated a hurricane, you might un-ship your topmasts, but NOAA weather reports weren’t reliable enough in the 18th century to anticipate such a condition.

The Endeavor’s sails would be fully furled while riding at anchor in Tahiti. Thumb nail is the Bounty with furled sails in Panama.

I dont know why I can't insert a pic. Anyway, here is the link:
http://www.tallshipbounty.org/galle...8/Panama+Canal/ 

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Old 01-14-2010, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: What sails?

Thanks Bob, It makes sense that the sails would be furled when the anchor was dropped. And thanks for the comments on blocks for the top ropes. The last thing I need on my model when I start running rigging is a bunch of unnecessary lines. As it is, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where to tie off some of the standing rigging.The Bounty photos are great. A hundred years ago my father took me to see that same replica when it was making a tour immediately after the movie.

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Old 01-14-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: What sails?

Hello all

Bob, I very much appreciate your experience and wonderful and romantic explanation of sailing. It must be a great experience.

I have to admit that I am not a sailor and only a budding amateur naval historian, but your response to the question about sending down masts puzzles me a bit.
About the masts themselves, you're certainly correct, unless knocked down, they stayed up. But the light yards and top masts, I'm fairly sure were occasionally sent down in the face of or in fact in the midst of weather. Sending yards down and back up apparently being also a fairly common port drill (presumably to keep skills sharp and idle sailors busy.)

One of my favorite books, Harland's Seamanship in the Age of Sail, has several very interesting chapters about setting and shortening sail, including the management of yards and topmasts. He documents when and how each component was shifted and what the responsibilities of the crew were in making the moves. I highly recommend the book and would hate to think that Mr. Harland's research was defective (it seems very well footnoted.)

I'm do believe you're quite correct about the various lines and tackle being temporary, but that still leaves the various sheaves, fids, gates and eyes used to affect the movements to model.

Regards

Jim

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Old 01-15-2010, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: What sails?

Hi Jim:
I have never read Seamanship in the Age of Sail, but I understand it’s an excellent book. I looked it up on Amazon.com and it was rated 5 stars with 13 reviews. They want $125 for a copy. Too much for me at this time, but I put it on my Christmas wish list. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know much about handling square riggers. My only experience was being a guest aboard the Baltimore Clipper “Pilgrim” for a cocktail cruise to Catalina, and they used the engine most of the time. I suppose today’s equivalent of a square sail is the spinnaker, which I do know well.

A sail is an airfoil and reacts to the principles of an airfoil. In its simplest terms, a sail is trimmed to make the boat go as fast as possible. A sail is trimmed both in its physical position relative to wind direction, and its shape relative to wind speed. I don’t want to get into a lengthy discussion of sail trim here because it’s only marginally relative to model ships, other than to say that some knowledge of the subject is helpful.

But I think your question here was whether topmast taken down in response to the need to shorten sail. My answer is (IMHO) that there would be no need to take down the entire topmast when you can shorten sail by reefing or furling the sail altogether, both of which are done quite often. Were topmast and yards taken down in very heavy weather and hurricane conditions? My guess is probably so. Bare topmasts and yards would certainly cause enough windage to impair steerage and control of the ship in high winds. And, as you pointed out, these old ships were manned by a crew of 100’s, so what else was there to do? An efficient crew is one that only has time to eat, sleep, and work. No time to complain. I think Bligh forgot about that during his stay in Tahiti.

Again, I’m not an expert, but I think the drills you are talking about were more geared to exercising the crew, and were no doubt vital when the enemy shot away a spar or mast. No doubt there were situations where the first ship to step a new mast won the battle. It would be important in heavy weather too. If the fore top yard arm broke off in 70 knots of wind it wouldn’t just fall on the deck like in the movies. With all of the lines attached it would flail around like a bull whip with a telephone pole attached, doing all sorts of damage to anything it encountered. You may be right that some lines and tackles were pre made up to handle such situations, but if so, they would be bundled and stowed below decks. Sailors are also quite adept at making up these block and tackle combinations when the need arises. We stepped a new mast in American Samoa. All we needed were 2 other sailboats so their masts could act like crane derricks, a lot of long lines, some blocks, a bunch of guys, and 2 cases of beer.

Lever’s “Young Sea Officer’s Sheet Anchor” pub.1819 shows an array of tackles for stepping masts and hoisting yard arms, but none of these are shown as being rigged on the ships in “Navy Board Ship Models 1650-1750”.

Regards, Bob

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