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Phantom 1868 2007

Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-22-2007

Good day,

Although the traffic on the long-standing "Phantom 1868" thread has died down lately, I am sure that there are still some folks working on this entry-level kit from Model Shipways. After talking to Ben on another forum, I thought it might be a good idea to try resurrecting some discussion and progress shots from those of us who are working on this model.

If folks think it would be more appropriate to continue in the old thread, I'm good with that too...just advise and I'll delete this one.

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-22-2007

I have an initial question regarding the carving of the hull...I've shortened the hull blank by the requisite 1/2" or so to get the keel profile templates to line up. I've also sanded the hull bottom enough to get good registration of the 1/8" keel. Now that I'm starting on the individual station profiles, I noticed that the "height" of the hull is also significantly oversized...after some measuring and comparing to the plan, I think I should be sanding down the tops of the bulwarks rather than hogging off a lot more material from the bottom of the hull. It seems like that would throw off the profiles even more than they already are.

In the attached picture, I've marked at the bottom of the hull where I would need to sand down to in order for the profile templates to fit over the gunwales. That seems way too much material to have to remove...so am I on the right track if I take the material off the top of the bulwarks instead?


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-22-2007

Chris,
You are right in principle...most of the material can come off the bulwarks. But you will need to be careful, especially at the stern of the ship, that there will still be enough material underneath to match the template. I didn't wind up having a problem with it, but it made me nervous. I think that if you get the profile correct with the profile template, that may prevent it happening, but it still made me nervous.
It's kind of hard to explain with words, so I drew up a picture...


In diagram 1, we see that the hull is slightly taller than the template. The red line represents what we would carve off if we only took off from the top. the green line shows what we would remove if we only took from the bottom of the hull. Diagram 2 shows that if we removed only from the top, there would not be enough material underneath to match the template. Diagram 3 shows that if material is only removed from the bottom of the hull, there would be enough material.
That's not to say that this IS the case, but it was a fear of mine when I was carving, and so I was extra careful. I'd recommend starting at the stern portion of the ship when figuring out how much needs to come off the top and bottom.
I hope I haven't been thoroughly confusing.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-22-2007

Thanks Ben, that's very clear. The diagram helped a lot. I'll let you know how it goes...


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-29-2007

Feeling the time crunch last night, I spent a few hours devoted to finishing up the deck fittings. All done with that, it's time to move on to the bowsprit. (edit: jHEY! that means I can update my profile! Feels like I've been on "Deck Houses" forever). Have to go out tonight and get some stain. Only about 6 weeks left.

How's the hull shaping coming along, Chris?


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-29-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
How's the hull shaping coming along, Chris?
Slowly but surely, thanks. The port side is almost there. Like many others, I'm surprised at how much reshaping is required at the stern,and how little at the bow. Since this whole build is a learning experience, I am experimenting with a lot of different Dremel tool attachments, hobby knife blades, sanding block shapes, etc. to see what works best for different parts of the hull. And I'm sure that I'm being overly tentative and paranoid about taking too much off, despite that tube of wood filler calling out, "don't worry!"

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: shawr - on -  08-29-2007

Hi all - and Ben. Thanks for turning me on to this forum.

I finished my Phantom on 8-25 and had a great time doing it, even with some obstacles. It is resting comfortably on the mantle.

I just can't figure out what to build next; HSM Bounty Launch, Rattlesnake or jump right into the Constitution...


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-30-2007

One thing I noticed about the hull templates...I've just filed this under "don't worry about it" but I am curious...

On templates 1 through 4, the "C" centreline marker at the bottom (keel) side of the template is immediately next to the end of the curved part. On templates 5 through 9, there is about a 1/16" flat area between the end of the hull curve, and the "C" marker. Given the 1/8" keel, shouldn't all of the templates have the "C" offset a bit to accomodate the keel? The templates make it appear as though the hull goes down into a sharp point from station 4 forward, rather than having a stem and keel?

BTW, by "don't worry about it" I mean that I am aligning the "C" marker with the side of the keel (Chuck's blue lines) at stations 1 through 4, and with the centreline (Chuck's red line) for stations 5 through 9 as this seems to make the most sense.

Chris


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-30-2007

Welcome Roger,
Glad to have you here. I'm sure you'll find more wooden ship modeling information here than over at finescale. By the way, in your email you mentioned sending in your photos and packing slip to get your rebate...how did you send them in? By mail? or will they accept them by email?

Chris,
You're right. I found that the "C"s were marked in the wrong place too. I just re-marked them in the correct location by comparing the template against the sections plan. That way, the C was the centerline on all templates.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-30-2007

Thanks Ben, I will do that as well.

Welcome Roger, please do post some pics of your finished build if you wish, it's always good to see another Phantom completed for reference and inspiration.

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: shawr - on -  08-30-2007

Ben: I asked about doing it electronically and was given a snail mail address to send the info to. I printed 4 pics on one page and made a copy of the shipping slip and sent them the original. I'll let everyone know when I hear back as to whether it's in an acceptable format and such or a time frame if they are accepted.

Chris: Thanks for the welcome; I'll pick out a couple pics to upload this evening though mine isn't as 'pretty' as most.

As a sidebar, I made me a pirate avatar with MS Paint. 80 x 80 pixcels aren't many to work with :)


Posted by: shawr - on -  08-30-2007

She's not the prettiest girl at the ball but here she is as promised:


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-31-2007

Wow, Roger. Don't be so hard on yourself. Looks to me like you did a great job. Particularly as quickly as you got done with it. Must have only been a couple months.
Very nice.

I'm working on the bowsprit now. Got her shaped, jackstays on, stained, and installed the gaskets (pretty proud of how the gaskets turned out. I'll post pictures shortly).


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  08-31-2007

Roger,

Your phantom looks great. You did a "phantastistic" job on it. Its very clean and consistant. You should be proud of it. Now on to the next ship. What are you planning on building next?

Chuck


Posted by: cwallace - on -  08-31-2007

Roger,

I doubt I could come up with something to say as "phunny" as Chuck's reply , so I'll just say that she looks great from where I'm sitting! How did you finish the masts and spars? I really like the tone of the finish...

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-31-2007

Here are photos. First of the foredeck fittings, which I have finished since my last photos were posted.


Next of the bowsprit, which is a work in progress, and only dry fitted on the ship right now. Just finished up the shackles on the very fore end of the sprit.



One question, and if Chuck is around, perhaps he can chime in:
On the rigging plan sheet in the kit, in the bottom right hand corner is a detail shot of the fore end of the bowsprit. There appears to be an eyebolt between the jackstays, just aft of the jibstay sheave, that appears to be where the tack cringle on the jib would attach. There's an arrow pointing to that area that says "tack lashing." I don't see it mentioned in the practicum, and I don't see it on the photos of the bowsprit in the practicum. It should be included, correct? Even if the model is shown without sails, the eyebolts and such fittings that are associated with the sails should be there, correct?


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  08-31-2007

It looks good. Very nice. That eye bolt is indeed for lashing the sail to. It can be shown on the model without sails but I left it off for the sake of simplicity. This is, by the way, the perfect ship to try sails for the first time. Its too bad that it is 1/8" scale though. It would have been a lot easier at 3/16' scale.

Chuck


Posted by: hardingb - on -  08-31-2007

Thanks for the clarification, Chuck. I'll include the eyebolt even though I don't have sails.
I agree about the scale being difficult for sails. I included sails on my first model and think they turned out well, but that was in 1:24 scale. At 1:24, I was even able to stitch the hems of the sail cloths, rather than drawing them in. At that scale, a 2 inch stitch is about 1mm long, so in-scale stitching can be done carfully on a sewing machine.
I think it would be too hard to do sails in 1:96, they would just look too clunky. I love the look of the furled sails on JTilley's plastic Phantom model over on DDM's gallery. I may do furled sails on Sultana, they should be do-able in 1:64.


Posted by: shawr - on -  08-31-2007

Thanks for the comments, all. A special thank you to Chuck. I’m not sure I would have finished it if I had had only the stock instructions – they’re very vague; not very beginner-like in my estimation.

I did it in a little more than two months, Ben. I skimped on some steps and cheated on others; i.e. I didn’t paint the fife rails because I had such a terrible time getting the paint to stick to the coaming and wheel. I left all the belaying pins brass just because I like brass.

As for the finish on the spars, Chris, it’s the brown paint that came with the kit; nothing special. I wish I’d painted the cap rail, too.

Ben, yours looks truly awesome. Your stanchions look nicer than mine; all even and true with each other. Good job.

Chuck, I am undecided as to my next build. My workshop is in the garage so I am thinking that for a winter project the HMS Bounty Launch looks cool, though the Rattlesnake would probably ‘float my boat’ better. I am fighting the urge to jump in over my head and go straight to the MS Connie – Any suggestions are welcome from all.

What I’ve learned from the Phantom:
Improvise. Sometimes ya just gotta make your own magic.
Design and manufacture. Sometimes ya gotta make your own parts.
Read it all. Sometimes the page is written on both sides.
Learn to crawl. Sometimes you have to crawl to find the thing you just dropped.
Compromise. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Do your best and move on.
Eat some crow. Sometimes ya gotta force yourself shut-up.
Belaying pins. These things are easier to tie off to than a knot on something else.


Posted by: shawr - on -  09-09-2007

Where'd everybody go?...
While waiting to hear from MS, I thought I'd busy myself and use up some spare parts and try my luck at making some of the cast parts from the kit:


Posted by: hardingb - on -  09-10-2007

Still here, Roger, just slow progress lately. Busy with life.
Working on the masts right now in little bits at a time.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  09-10-2007

Same here; lately I've had just a couple of hours a week on average for modeling...hull shaping is almost done, but every time I sit down to "finish", I find something else to tweak here or there. But another session or two and I'll cut and run with what I have, and get started on finishing the hull and deck.

I've decided that I'm going to carve down the cockpit recess before applying the deck planking, then cut the planking sheet so that there is proper planking inside the cockpit...a very minor enhancement, but something that can I benefit from after seeing the many previous models completed.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  09-10-2007

That's how I did it, Chris. Carve first, deck later. I started carving down the cockpit with a carving bit. Once I had a big enough hole for the smallest of the sanding drums, I used that.

Don't forget to carve the step around the outer bulwarks before you start on the inner bulwarks/deck. I used a sanding drum for this, too, as I recall. Though I may have cut the lower edge of the step with a hobby knife by hand first. Don't precisely recall.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  09-11-2007

I added the boom rest to the main mast last night...and then realized I had not placed the mast hoops first...oops. So now I'll have to figure out how to glue mast hoops together ON the mast (rather than making them off the mast and then sliding them on) without messing up the finish.

I made the ones for the fore mast by wrapping a dowel (left overs from making the masts) with a few layers of masking tape (to slightly increase the diameter) and then shaping/gluing the hoops and sliding them off the tape. The hoops were made with file folder material, glued with CA and then dipped in the same stain I used for the masts. They turned out well, I think.

Since I have to glue the ones for the main mast ON the mast, rather than off, I cut the strips last night and stained them. Tonight, I think I'll wrap the masking tape around the mast itself (protected by a layer of paper, so the tape doesn't mess up the stain job on the mast) and glue the hoops that way.

Live and learn. The hoops for the fore mast turned out well, I think.


Posted by: shawr - on -  09-17-2007

I received a letter from Model-Expo today okaying the Phantom redemption. 19 days in total. Not bad. Their web site isn't set up to redeem credits so you must call in your order, which I did. I went with another solid hull - the Newsboy. I liked the green.

I almost went with the Niagara but I want to gain a little more experience first. Plus, it turns out the Niagara, or a facsimile thereof is sitting on lake Erie not a 3.5 hour drive from me. I may go see the real thing before I attempt the model. http://www.brigniagara.org/

Anyway, that's the scoop; about 2 week turnaround on the Phantom credit.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  09-18-2007

Glad everything worked out for you, and thanks for the info.
Newsboy should be fun, kind of like a larger, brigantine version of the Phantom. Have fun, and keep us posted on your progress.

Speaking of progress, it's been a few days since I posted an update. I have stepped the masts and have begun the standing rigging. The practicum called for rigging the bowsprit guys, footropes, and bobstay as the first rigging, but I decided to follow an outside-in method instead. So I waited on rigging the bowsprit until I had the masts up, and then did the jib stay and forestay first, and then the bobstay, footropes and guys. Last night I rigged the triatic stay and main topmast stay.
Here's the newbie error of the week...I have not been using the kit supplied eyebolts, as they seemed out of scale for most of the eyebolts on the ship. So I've been making my own eyebolts. As I have been making them and placing them, I've been referencing the plans to make sure the ones that will have multiple lines are big enough...but what I didn't account for was the larger rope size. I made all the eyebolts for the thinner thread, so I had to replace almost every one for the standing rigging because they weren't large enough for the larger diameter rope...oops. Live and learn. At least it was a very fixable mistake.
For all the standing rigging, I have been siezing the lines rather than tying them. There are a couple spots where the practicum refers to tying (particularly on the bowsprit) where I thought that knots just wouldn't look right. I tied the footropes which are the smaller diameter line. I also noticed on the plans that there are a few blocks sized to some of the stays (forestay, jibstay and two on the main topmast stay)...looking forward in the practicum, sure enough they are mentioned in the sections for rigging the halliards. I decided to install them now, as I am rigging the stays.
I'm happy with how the rigging is going so far, and am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. On to the shrouds tonight.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-08-2007

Well I had a particularly bad night Thursday. I had been fighting with my printer, trying to figure out how to get some decent looking flags. I finally gave up on that for the evening and went back to the model to do some finishing touches and prepare for taking photos of her to get my refund from MS. As I was reaching for a bit of left-over rigging line to make another rope coil, I bumped the model with my elbow and sent her to the floor. Talk about a near heart attack! Luckily, only the boom snapped, not a huge deal. I'll need to replace it, as it snapped in half...not salvageable (though I'll be able to re-use the blocks and such). But it would have been much worse if it was one of the masts. The cap rail also split right over the center of the transom, but it snapped right back together without leaving even the slightest mark, and doesn't look like it requires any gluing. So it could have been much worse. I wound up splinting it and gluing it back together so I could take the photos needed to get the refund. I had it in a state that was complete enough to get the refund, all I need to complete (other than replacing the boom) is the flags.

On the problem with the flags, I purchased some rolling papers (as recommended by Chuck in his Mayflower log) but found that the ink was over saturating the paper and running, leaving fuzzy lines, and stars that are basically indistinct little white blobs. Also, the colors look a bit off to me, a little too bright. I PM'ed Chuck, who recommended spraying the rolling papers with a fixative (said hair spray should work). So I'll give that a try. I'm also going to try to fiddle around with the colors, and see if I can darken them up a bit. Will post photos once I'm all done with her.

I took the photos to my local hobby shop and got my MS refund from them, and applied it to the Sultana kit they had waiting for me. Itching to get started on her, but I've got a few more evenings of work on Phantom first.


Posted by: shawr - on -  10-16-2007

Ben,
Ouch. It gave me a queasy feeling just reading about the 'accident'; glad the damage was minor. Sultana, eh? Seems to be the more popular choice between it and the Newsboy I went with. I can't find too much info on the Newsboy model; looks like I'm on my own. I am almost to the deck planking with <knock on basswood> no big dilemmas.

I did get a response from the Mariner's Museum about the plans for the Newsboy:
http://www.mariner.org/library/plan...ected_plans.php

I got a chuckle out of it:

---- Begin Paste ----
Mr. Shaw;

Although The Mariners' Museum does have two sheets of plans for the Brigantine Newsboy, we are not permitted to reproduce them because of copyright considerations. The copyright is held by Model Shipways, a division of Model Expo. Their website is www.modelexpo-online.com . According to a recent communication
with the company, they can accommodate most requests for ship plans.

Good luck with your research.

Bill Barker
Assistant Archivist
The Mariners' Museum
100 Museum Drive
Newport News, VA 23606

----- End Paste ---

They still list a ton of other plans on their site for sale/research.

Keep me posted on your Sultana - or lemme know where you'll be posting your progress.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-17-2007

That is comical. Glad you didn't shell out a few bucks and then wind up with another copy of the MS plans.
I haven't decided on posting progress photos. Sultana (like Phantom) has been modeled to death, and there are plenty of personal and group build logs floating around in the forums. I will probably post a minimum of photos.
I've completed the repairs. Chuck's idea with the hairspray is a big improvement. Not perfect, but good enough for now. I'll fiddle around with other options for the flags on Sultana when I get there. Just need to rig up a few more of the flags and make the stand, and I'll be done.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-23-2007

Well she's officially done. I had finished up the fiddly details late last week, and made the display stand over the weekend. Placed her on her stand last night (and then re-glued the handle on the bowsprit winch for the umteenth time). I had purchased the MS pedestals a few weeks ago and darkened them with blackening solution because I thought the bright shiny brass clashed with the bright shiny copper hull. But they provided drywall screws with the pedestal. Dry wall screws?! Not to mention that they were way too big... the keel is only 1/8" wide, and the outer diameter of the threads on the screws were nearly 3/16". I could not find appropriate screws. The only ones that were thin enough (size 4) aren't readily available in lengths over 1". So I decided to go with dowels. I had some left over in 1/32" but that was too flimsy, so I went with toothpicks instead. Not only were they a perfect width (about 3/64") but they were stiffer than the birch dowels.
So she's complete, provided I don't send her to the floor again...
Will take pictures tonight. Then it's on to Sultana!


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  10-23-2007

Congrats, Thats a great feeling isnt it. I cant wait to see your photos. On a small model such as Phantom you probably could have just glued the keel into the pedestal slots. Its not very heavy. The likelyhood that you will remove it at some point is very small.

Cant wait to see the Sultans progress.

Chuck


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-23-2007

Congrats Ben,
I know you had fun with the Phantom and you will have more fun with the Sultana. Anxious to see your phantom photos.
Dennis


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-23-2007

Thanks guys, and yes it does feel great.
Regarding gluing the keel to the pedestals. I considered it, but only very briefly. The pedestals from MS have 5/32" slots, so they're a bit big for the 1/8" keel of Phantom. So if I had glued them, it would only have been to the underside of the keel...one surface. Also, I didn't have any epoxy, so I was looking at bonding brass to the copper plating with either CA or PVA which I didn't think was sufficient. And even if I had epoxy, there was the bond of the copper plating to the keel itself to consider. So I went with dowels instead, which didn't turn out to be difficult at all.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-23-2007

As promised, photos are in my gallery. The thumbnail below links to the gallery:


And both my models together, just for a feeling of scale...Phantom is about 76 feet long, 1/8" to the foot. On the right is my lobster smack, 30 foot long ship, model is 1/2" to the foot. Coincidentally, both ships are from about the same time period.



Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-24-2007

They both look terrific Ben,
Did you use the scored deck planking that came with the Phantom kit or make your own? It looks really crisp. I'm working on a vintage MS Elsie kit that a friend gave me and have decided to make the deck planking. I think you will really enjoy the Sultana.
Dennis


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-24-2007

Morning, Dennis

Yes, I did use the scored planking. I think it turned out nice enough. I would have liked to have done something to simulate the caulking, but I couldn't find anything that looked good enough. Couldn't get a pencil in those tiny slots. I will not be using the scored planking on Sultana. I don't think the scored stuff would be close to scale for anything but 1/8" scale.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-24-2007

The Elsie is 1/8" scale also. I'm cutting 3/32" wide strips from 1/32" basswood for deck planking. Think it's going to look pretty good. I used a dark pencil to simulate caulking on the Sultana. Turned out OK, I feel. Oh well, they are our ships and as long as we are satisfied that's what counts. The Sultana was my second build and I feel I learned so much from it.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-24-2007

Don't know how many you've cut already, but you might want to consider going a little smaller. At 1/8" scale, 3/32" would be 9 inch wide planks. Of course, going smaller means that many more fiddly little planks to lay, which is basically why I stuck with the scored planking sheet on Phantom.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-24-2007

I agree about the width. But the Sultana is 3/16" scale and hull/deck planking is 1/8" wide and looks pretty good. I plan to sand the 3/32" strips down a little so they will be little less than than 3/32". Also the quarter deck planking on the Elsie is curved to match the bulwarks.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  10-24-2007

Yeah, I was considering doing the same with the Sultana planking. Perhaps build some kind of jig to shave down the deck planks a bit.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-24-2007

Well, have fun with the Sultana and keep us updated.
Dennis


Posted by: shawr - on -  10-25-2007

Congrats Ben. Looks great.

I'm planking the deck on Newsboy. I ran a black Sharpie down one edge of the plank and layed them with the Sharpie side towards the outboard. I used pencil on the ends because the Sharpie wicked too badly. Had I thought of it sooner I would have lined up the joints with the particular bulwark stanchion, figuring there would be a beam thereabouts, if ya catch my drift. Then, after sanding I took a pencil and made dots to imitate pins or dowels or whatever they used back then to secure the planks; one on each plank at the joint. I'm satisfied with the outcome.

We'll be calling you the Sultana of Swing before long. With appologies to Dire Straights :-)


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  10-25-2007

Sounds like your having fun Roger. Send some photos sometime.
Dennis


Posted by: shawr - on -  11-01-2007

It's too ugly to show pictures.



Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  11-01-2007

You probably have looked at your ship so long that all you see are the flaws. Other people normally do not see them, so don't be too concerned.
Dennis


Posted by: shawr - on -  11-03-2007

Here's a couple. One of the Newsboy - and my working mount which I find very sturdy. The other is a shot of the lifeboat I carved from a piece of quarter round. I'll use it in place of the cast version that came with the kit.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  11-03-2007

Hull looks very good Roger. Like the blue bulwarks. On the lifeboat's, did you glue 2 pieces of quarter round together & then shape it? Did you carve it out for the inside? Might try this idea for the dories on my Elsie.
Dennis


Posted by: shawr - on -  11-05-2007

The lifeboat is one piece. I placed the metal one upside down on the flat side of the quarter round and traced the basic shape and just started hacking away at it. The keel is a piece of 28 gage wire, super glued into postition. Since it is placed on the deck upside down I did very minimal carving out on the top side. Just enough so it's sorta concaved; by this point a was afraid I'd snap it in two.

By all means, give it a try - let us know how it turns out.


Posted by: kjcrisler - on -  11-29-2007

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping someone out there can give me some help. I bought the Model Shipways Phantom kit about 10-15 years ago and started to build it. Then life got in the way and the kit sat in a box on a shelf for many years. I recently restarted on it. Things are going pretty well. I found Chuck Passaro's construction guide...that's been a terrific help since the original kit instructions were only 3 pages long. Anyway, enough background...

The Practicum suggests that the current kits come with two different sizes of black rigging line. My kit only came with one size. As best I can measure it, it is 0.02" in diameter. I suspect this is appropriate for the larger rigging lines. Can anyone suggest what size rigging line I should use for the second set of lines?

Thanks in advance,
Ken


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  11-30-2007

Hi Ken

Thanks for the kudos on the practicum. I would suggest .oo8 and .012 rigging line in black. Also some sewing thread that isnt fuzzy for even thinner lines. Then the same for the tan lines. In fact you could probably get away with only .008 and the sewing thread for the running rigging. (Tan)

I would use that thicker stuff you have for the shrouds. Its probably .018.

Chuck


Posted by: LoydB - on -  12-23-2007

Wow, glad I was steered to this thread. My Phantom kit should be sitting on my doorstep when I get back from xmas at the in-laws. One more long day of cleaning should give me a shop that I can work in again :) So I'm excited to get started.

loyd


Posted by: LoydB - on -  01-03-2008

Started carving tonight.




Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  01-03-2008

Looks like you got a good start Loyd. Keep at it.
Dennis


Posted by: LoydB - on -  01-03-2008

Getting closer.

Are the keel and stern/stemposts (3/32" in my kit) supposed to be 1/8"? In Chuck's practicum he mentions that the bottom must be 1/8" later when attaching the keel.




Posted by: LoydB - on -  01-05-2008

Started shaping the front end. I was surprised at how much wood had to be removed...




Posted by: cwallace - on -  01-24-2008

Good day Phantom'ers,

Boy, do I feel silly...but I'm glad this thread has continued with a life of its own since I dropped off so soon after starting it. Ben, congratulations on completing your model, it looks fabulous...great job. Loyd, good to see another contributor to this thread, please keep posting your pics!

Back in September-ish when I last posted, I was really beating my head against the wall with the basic hull shaping. I think that paranoia of "really screwing it up" was the main problem, and I was just beating myself up to the point that it wasn't much fun. Eventually with kids' school activities starting up, my hobby space being consumed by the basement reno, etc. it was just easier to not deal with it for a while.

But, I came to my senses recently and just decided to forge ahead with the hull shape as it was...not absolutely perfect, but "close enough". I would like to try a POB project rather than carved hull to see if it's just the carving that was driving me nuts, or whether this whole wooden ship modeling thing just isn't my cup of tea.

So anyway, now I've patched up a few of the hull boo-boos, carved the "step", attached the stem/stern and keel, and have started on the copper plating. Here are a couple of pics that I've uploaded here...

Cheers,
Chris



That technique from the original Phantom thread of using double-sided tape to hold the copper tape, and cutting the plates on the cutting mat is a great idea...actually getting the plates consistent and sized properly is a breeze, I highly recommend it!




Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  01-24-2008

Looking good Chris,
Stay with it. The Phantom was my first ship and I thought that some of the things that Chucks practicum showed were impossible for me, but then I found everything was possible with trial & error. You will be very pleased with yourself when the job is done. I have not done a POB yet. Someday I will get the nerve up to try. Keep those photos comimg.
Dennis


Posted by: cwallace - on -  01-24-2008

Thanks Dennis, for me it was just the finicky trial and error and figuring out the right tools to carve most effectively. It is a bit more fun again now that I've moved on to something new, and the coppering so far hasn't given me too much trouble.

One thing I discovered that helped a lot for the carving was to regularly hone my Xacto knife blades on a leather strop with a chromium oxide (green) honing compount. I would hone with maybe half a dozen quick strokes on each side whenever the blade wasn't cutting completely smoothly, which helped keep precise control of the depth and length of the cut. I hope this will come in handy later when carving down the bulwarks. Power sanding/carving with a Dremel tool was good for getting somewhat close to the profile, but for me, I found that it took the soft basswood off too quickly for the final finishing (hence the "boo-boos" that needed patching), and that hand sanding and carving was where I was getting hung up.

Another "tip" that seems obvious now, but may help somebody down the road...re: marking the line 1/8" below the waterline to show where the copper plates need to be trimmed. I marked the waterline fine using a jury-rigged marking gauge, and initially just lowered the gauge 1/8" to draw the lower line. But due to the curvature of the hull, this resulted in a wide variation in the actual distance between the two lines. Remember that you need a 1/8" wide copper plate to completely fill the distance between those two lines, so you need to measure the 1/8" along the hull perpendicular to the waterline using a tick strip. You can see this as the "dashed" line in my photo which is where I've marked the lower line for trimming the plates.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  01-24-2008

You've learned a lot already Chris,
I have found that the longer you look at your ship all you see are the flaws, but the onlookers do not see them. For me, getting away from it for a day helps.
Dennis


Posted by: hardingb - on -  01-24-2008

Good to see you're still with us Chris! Your hull shape looks just fine to me. And you really have a good method for getting consistent size out of those copper plates, much better than mine.

Have you carved down the deck yet? Once you past that point, you're done with the hull shaping and the rest of the build is a blast.
On a side note (since we're talking about solid hulled models) I royally screwwed up my Sultana hull. Mis-read the bulkhead markings on the templates and shortened my hull by about 1/8" too much. I could get a fresh replacement from MS, but I'm so tired of the solid hull carving that I've decided to scratch-build a POB hull for her and then continue on with the kit. No more solid hull for me. I'm just designing the bulkhead templates and gathering materials now.
Keep up the good work on Phantom. And don't forget to have fun!


Posted by: cwallace - on -  01-24-2008

Sounds like we're of one mind with the hull carving! Are you posting a build log or updates on your Sultana somewhere? I'd be interested to see how you fare with your POB experiment. I am waiting on the beginner scratchbuilding CD from Ships in Scale, actually I had ordered it last summer but it got lost in the mail, and I just got around to asking for a replacement. At this point it's more out of curiosity than anything, but I could see myself down the road leaning more towards scratch building than kit building.

Re: the Phantom, I am waiting until I've finished the coppering and painting on the outer hull before carving the deck and gunwales, per Chuck's recommendations. So we'll see how that goes when the time comes.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  01-24-2008

First "batch" of copper plates are applied on the starboard side. I could have done a better job of aligning the seams properly, but there ya go...






Posted by: loqwan - on -  01-24-2008

Looks great, thanks for posting the pics! I am getting ready to copper my hull hopefully this weekend so I am following this thread for advice.


Posted by: LoydB - on -  01-25-2008

Hey, that coppering is coming along well. Looks good.

I finished gluing my keel on last night. The piece I'd cut warped with the weather change down here (first pic), so it took a little clamping and some weight (with pins holding in place) to get it to lay true.






Posted by: cwallace - on -  01-29-2008

After being out of town for the weekend, I resumed coppering tonight and got most of the starboard side done. Looks like the dockyard apprentice had been drinking a few too many before laying down some of those rows of plates, but overall I'm happy with the results. I'll move on to the port side now, then finish trimming both sides down to the 1/8" below the waterline, paint the top of the hull black and finally apply the last top row of plates.

Incidentally, my plates are all cut to 1/8" x 3/8" in size; this is a slight deviation from the recommended 1/4" length but I like the look of it (and it means fewer plates to cut and stick!)






Posted by: LoydB - on -  02-02-2008

I'm getting ready to drill the hole for the hawse pipe, and can't figure out which plan view shows the correct location. There are a couple of small circle-thingies on one of the side views, but neither looks hawse-ish. I'd appreciate a pointer toward the right view (or confirmation that I should just wing it...).

thanks!
loyd


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  02-02-2008

Hi Loyd,
My plans show the hawse pipe on the side view about 5/16" from bow (not keel). Splash rail has Phantom on it & hawse pipe just below that. Depth is such as to keep hole above deck. Hope this helps.
Dennis


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-04-2008

Lower coppering is now complete...I need to tidy up a few little dings around the hull before sealing and painting, then I'll apply the top row of copper plates. The run of the plating on the starboard side has much more of an "angle" in it rather than a smooth run, I'm not sure if this was just the way that I laid the plates (you never really notice these things until you come back the next day and take a second look!) or if assymetry in the shape of my hull was the cause. In any case, I'm glad I went through the process of applying the individual plates, learned a lot that should make my future models that much better.






Posted by: hardingb - on -  02-04-2008

looking good, Chris. Now just carving down the bulwarks, and then you're past all the tedious parts, the rest is a blast.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-10-2008

A progress shot of the deck and bulwarks carving...I have put away the knives and am just sanding now that I'm down to around 1 to 1-1/2 32nds pretty much all the way around. Need to clean up the stern corners and the bow a little bit, but it is progressing.

I came pretty close to smashing through in a couple of places, but luckily noticed the bulwarks starting to "lean" under even a little bit of knife pressure (which is why the knives are put away now!) A little cylindrical diamond-coated carving bit in the rotary tool made carving out the cockpit pretty easy.

I made a couple of templates from bristol board for the deck camber, based on the plan measurements I calculated about 10" radius amidships. But on the model, this seemed excessive, so I toned it down a bit. The camber is definitely noticeable though...next pic maybe.




Posted by: DonaldB - on -  02-19-2008

I'm also looking forward to getting the hull shaped and the deck and coppering done. For some reason the rest of it doesn't look too intimidating, but the big stuff that comes first does.

I found that my hull had a few areas that actually had too little wood at the template lines - there were a few small gaps between the wood and template, while on the opposite side, there was too much wood that needed to be trimmed away. But - I'm not worried about it since only someone with an inhuman eye will be able to see the difference.

I am almost done shaping the hull, and am in the middle of sanding it smooth. I made a few gouges that were deeper than I intended, but I think only one is above the water line, so I'm expecting the copper to do a little cover-up for me, and for the most part the sanding is working fine.

So far so good. I wish I didn't feel compelled to race the Model Expo "store credit" clock. I think I'm just going to work when the spirit moves me, and if the spirit is hankering for a $69 credit, then so be it.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  02-19-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
For some reason the rest of it doesn't look too intimidating, but the big stuff that comes first does. 100% correct!

I'm not worried about it since only someone with an inhuman eye will be able to see the difference. Also 100% correct

I am almost done shaping the hull, and am in the middle of sanding it smooth. I made a few gouges that were deeper than I intended, but I think only one is above the water line, so I'm expecting the copper to do a little cover-up for me, and for the most part the sanding is working fine. Elmer's wood filler and a couple coats of paint...they'll never know...I won't tell anyone.

So far so good. I wish I didn't feel compelled to race the Model Expo "store credit" clock. I think I'm just going to work when the spirit moves me, and if the spirit is hankering for a $69 credit, then so be it.How much time do you have left? I essentially took 2 months off when I was building mine. Had to cram in the last couple months to finish her, but I got my rebate. But there's no point in ruining a good time by feeling like you're under an obligation.


By the way, where you from, Don?


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  02-19-2008

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Good question about how much time left - I don't know exactly, but probably 5 months or so still. My wife bought it for me as a present, so I'll have her dig up the receipt, which I'm sure she has.

I'm in Ann Arbor, MI. I updated my profile a little.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  02-19-2008

Ugh, Ann Arbor. Black hole of big ten football, where title dreams go to die. My team hasn't won in Ann Arbor in over forty years.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-24-2008

Decking is installed...one of the pics shows shows the sloppy fit of the little piece of decking for the cockpit. Not sure yet if I'll redo that, or find a way to hide it. A strip of veneer around the edge of the cockpit might be a good idea to hide the carving marks anyway...any suggestions?

I have a ton of 1/32" basswood sheets from a lot of model ship supplies I bought at a local estate sale, so I was thinking to use that for the waterway instead of manila file folder. A quick test fit showed 1/32" as being too thick, but I'll see whether I can make it work with some planing or sanding, or failing that go with the file folder material. Definitely need something to hide the mess where the decking meets the bulwarks...

Cheers,
Chris




Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  02-24-2008

Hi Chris,
Looking very good. Looks like you have a nice height on the aft deck bulwarks. I didn't do that on my Phantom and had to add height later. I used Manila folder for the waterway on my Phantom but used 1/32" basswood for waterway on Elsie and I think it looks OK. I wound up staining the bulwarks on the Elsie instead of painting white because it blended more with deck and tended not to highlite the gaps where waterway meets the bulwarks and stanchions, plus I like the look of stain better than paint. Just my 2 cents.
Dennis


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-24-2008

Thanks Dennis, I checked your pictures of Elsie and yes, that waterway looks just fine. I'll see what I can do to thin mine out anyway, I am working on a prototype thickness sander for the drill press so this would be a good test. Lots of options to choose from in any case.

What order did you do things on your Phantom? Did you stain the insides of the bulwarks before or after applying the waterway? I was thinking to wait until the waterway, scuppers and stanchions were done, and paint everything in one go?


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  02-24-2008

It's been awhile Chris and I'm not sure if I painted waterway first or after. Probably would be better after installed if good enough to keep paint off of deck. Knowing my painting skills I probably painted it before.
Dennis


Posted by: hardingb - on -  02-25-2008

Chris,
Nice looking decking. The sloppiness of the deck in the cockpit is not bad, better than mine anyway. Some kind of lining of the walls of the cockpit is in order. I didn't use the kit-supplied cockpit coaming. I didn't like the way the britannia metal looked, and it didn't fit my cockpit hole exactly. So I built one with manila folder. I laminated two vertical layers together to form the walls, and then made one for the rail. The walls were made with one layer going from the cockpit deck up to the coaming rail, and an outer layer going from the main deck up to the rail. That way any sloppiness in the way the deck was cut out is covered over.

I painted my bulwarks before installing the deck planking to reduce the opportunities to get paint on the deck. I realize it's a little late for that now, so you'll probably want to mask off the deck. You should probably paint the bulwarks now before you install the waterway, that way the waterway will cover your drips...just be VERY careful, since the planking has already been laid. If you're going to paint the waterway, do it before installing.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-25-2008

Well it's hard to see in the picture, but there are a couple of jaggy spots that are pretty noticeable. At minimum, I will line the inside of the cockpit with manila folder, and see how the supplied metal coaming looks once it's painted...I hadn't noticed before that your cockpit did not use the coaming pieces. The cockpit decking is not glued down yet (though the main decks are) but if I can cover the gap that way then that'll do it.

I'll definitely paint the bulwarks next (and the outside of the hull so I can finish the coppering). The waterway will cover anything I manage to slop onto the edge of the decking (hopefully!) :-)

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  02-29-2008

I'm currently making the "step" in the hull at the bulwarks and am looking ahead to the next steps. I will probably take a break from carving the step since it's taking a long time, and make the rudder next.

Couple of questions:
As far as carving the step, I have one side done and I'm pretty happy with it. However, I'm struggling a little with the end grain at the stern. I started to carve it from side to side, and it just sort of chipped out the fibers. I then started to carve from top to bottom, but have had less luck controlling the blade when I do that, and I'm afraid to slice too far down.

Any advice on this? Or should I just proceed really super slowly going top to bottom?

Second, in the practicum it looks like the hull gets painted before the copper strips go on - is that the recommended order (paint, then copper)?

Sorry, no pictures yet. I'll try to get one up here one of these days.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  02-29-2008

End grain is a pain. I used my dremel to make the step, so I didn't have the same problem. But here's what I would try.

With a SHARP! #11 blade, score the lower edge of the step. The go over it several more times, gradually deepening the cut until you're approximately at the correct depth. Then carefully Carve in the step. You can either use a #11, or a chisel type blade, whichever you're more comfortable with. But it's absolutely important that it be super sharp. Many people (myself included) use their xacto blades well past the point at which they've dulled. This means they have to exert too much pressure and it's easy to make a mistake. A sharp blade will cut with very little pressure, so you'll have more control.

Yes, paint first, then copper. You'll only need to paint the upper part of the hull. No point painting under the copper. Painting first means you won't get paint on your copper plates once they're installed. You'll need to go back and touch things up from time to time, but it's much safer than painting the whole hull after coppering.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  02-29-2008

I suggest if you prime before painting, do not prime where copper will be placed. Adheres better to bare wood. My opinion.
Dennis


Posted by: cwallace - on -  02-29-2008

On the other hand, I applied the coppering before painting :-) It's not like I'm slapping the paint on with a 4" paintbrush, so I haven't found it too difficult to keep the coppering clean. But whatever you feel more comfortable with will be fine.

You may want to invest in a leather strop and some honing compound to keep your Xacto blades absolutely razor sharp at all times. It only takes a couple of seconds to give each side of your #11 blade a few strokes on the compound every few minutes, and it's razor sharp again. Check the edge against the back of your thumbnail, it should immediately "catch" the surface of the nail and not slide at all even under the slightest pressure. If it does not grab then it needs to be honed. I have not needed to replace either of my blades (I use a #10 and #11) through all of the Phantom hull carving and they are still sharper than they were from the factory.

Something like these items from Rockler would be all you need:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?...ning%20compound

Cheers,
Chris


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  02-29-2008

I can see where these items would pay for themselves pretty quick Chris. Thanks for the tip.
Dennis


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-06-2008

Chris,
I purchased a set of these...I had been looking into sharpening options anyway. They arrived last night. Unfortunately, there was very little in the way of instructions included. Can you give us some pointers? Which direction to stroke, how much compound to use, etc.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-06-2008

to answer my own question, here's a link to a brief how-to guide.

http://www.imcclains.com/productinf...HoningBlock.pdf


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-06-2008

I finally made it through the old Phantom shared project email thread, and picked up a lot of good tips and things to watch out for. I am just finishing up the bulwark stanchions on mine. I have to do a final sanding to get them down to the level of the bulwarks, but hopefully that will be completed tonight. I still have a few long ones that came loose during last night's sanding that I reglued. I have the rudder made. I tried using brass strips for the pintles and gudgeons, but I couldn't get them to bend right. So, taking a tip form the old thread, I used black pin striping tape that I superglued to the rudder. I did manage to get a small pin in the tape, which I glued into slots that I carved in the rudder. I don't know if I should glue the rudder on before to after I create the rail. Any suggestions?

That leads me to my other question. I am going to make the rail out of one sheet of basswood, as done in the practicum. On the plans the rail looks to be only 1/8" wide and I know others had trouble installing the chain plates because they didn't have enough width outboard to drill through for them. So my question is how wide should I make the initial rail (before final sanding) to allow enough room for the plates and still look reasonably in scale?

Thanks.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-06-2008

Rudder before or after the cap rail doesn't make much difference.

A comment about the rudder: The practicum (and most of the Phantom models out there) show the pintles and gudgeons painted black. I did my own Phantom that way, and read a posting later that this was not realistic. On a copper clad ship, the pintles and gudgeons would have been copper as well. Using a different metal would have caused a chemical reaction which would have led to oxidation and deterioration of the material. After all those years of chemistry in college, I certainly should have realized this, but oh well. So if it's not too late, you could make the pintles and gudgeons out of the same old copper tape you plated the hull with.

About the rail. I was concerned about having the same problem with the chain plates, but everything came out fine in the end. You just need to drill your holes for the chainplates so they start right over the bulwarks themselves, and come out the underside just outboard of the bulwarks. On my Phantom, I drilled through the tops of the bulwarks a bit, but you'll never be able to tell. But just to be on the safe side, what you propose about making the cap rail a little wide and then sanding it down once you have the chain plate holes drilled is a good idea. You don't need to make it too wide, certainly no more than 3/16".

When you get a chance, you should post photos of your Phantom...we'd love to see them.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-06-2008

Thanks Ben. That's good to know about the pintles and gudgeons. I think I might try covering the pin striping tape with some copper tape, which would give them some relief. If that doesn't look right, I have to recopper the rudder, since I have them glued to it already. Or I may just leave them black and move on. I like your ideas for the cap, too. I will post some pictures when I get a chance (and figure out how its done).


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-06-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Or I may just leave them black and move on.

If the only other option was re-coppering the rudder, I'd just leave them black. Chances are good that the people who will see your model will never know the difference.

Posting photos is easy enough. Just use the Photos link up in the menu at the top of the page and post the photos in your account gallery. Then, when you're making a post, open the My Pictures box (button is on the right side of the posting window) and select the pictures you want to post.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  03-07-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Chris,
I purchased a set of these...I had been looking into sharpening options anyway. They arrived last night. Unfortunately, there was very little in the way of instructions included. Can you give us some pointers? Which direction to stroke, how much compound to use, etc.


Hm, I had typed a reply but I think I hit "Preview" instead of "Submit"

Anyway Ben, the amount of compound isn't critical...just rub the stick around on the strop, covering the surface with a thin layer. Imagine it's a crayon and you're lightly colouring it. You really just want the compound to fill in the natural pores of the leather, you don't want it caked on. As you strop, the compound will get pressed into the leather and you can reapply more on top, no need to clean any of the old compound off unless it really gets caked on for some reason. If you're just honing small Xacto blades, you can probably go at least a half-dozen or so honings between applications of more compound.

Strop both edges of the blade, and you want to keep the bevel of the blade as flat on the strop as possible throughout the whole stroke. As mentioned in the PDF, strop away from the edge. To strop one edge, I'll put the blade down at the far end of the strop with the edge pointed away, and pull the blade towards me. Then to do the other edge I'll put the blade at the near side of the strop, edge facing towards me, and push the blade away (knife is in my right hand all the time). Keep the whole length of the edge flat on the strop, try not to "roll" the edge through the stroke or press so hard that the edge bows.

If I get a chance I'll post some pics or a YouTube video...

Chris


Posted by: cwallace - on -  03-07-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
On a copper clad ship, the pintles and gudgeons would have been copper as well. Using a different metal would have caused a chemical reaction which would have led to oxidation and deterioration of the material.


Just as an aside, I recently ran across an interesting story about this topic...it's very short and an interesting, and amusing, read:

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Co...ory/Lessons.htm

Bronze could also have been used for pintles/gudgeons instead of copper, I have some brass strip that I am planning on using (close enough!) And as for black, well if any smart-aleck asks why you have iron pintles on your copper-clad ship, you can always say that they're bronze, just painted black! So there!

Chris


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  03-09-2008

Look for some advice on the keel. I'm shaping the keel at the bow, curving down and around the bow. I have tried 4 different times to create the curve without splitting the wood or opening the glue joint between the two groups of 1/8" strips. I tried cutting the whole thing out of a sheet of basswood, but it split, which made sense (grain!) then I took the practicum's advice about gluing up the strips, which gives strong grain in both primary directions, but then the glue joint between the groups of strips came apart.

Seems like the primary (kit) instructions in this case (Figure would be a little easier to do. Anyone do it that way? Any comments on how I might be more successful with the practicum instructions.

I'm suddenly sorry I got rid of my old tabletop scroll saw 10 years ago - I think it would have come in handy here...


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  03-09-2008

Hi Don,
I glued the 2 pieces together (as practicum said) using Elmers carpenters wood glue. I clamped it and let set overnite. Did not have problem with glued joints. Your right about a scroll saw. I do not have one either but it sure would be a time saver.
P.s. I used basswood.


Posted by: cwallace - on -  03-09-2008

Ditto here re: gluing up the pieces for the stem. What kind of glue are you using? A modern yellow wood glue (Titebond II/III, Elmer's Carpenter's glue, etc.) would be the best to use, as the bond should be stronger than the wood itself. Be sure to clamp them as best you can.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-10-2008

You should also make sure your knife is absolutely sharp and that you are cutting with many shallow cuts rather than using a lot of force. If you try to force it, you'll be more likely to split the wood or the glue joint.


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  03-10-2008

Thanks to all who responded - I think I probably didn't give my glue long enough to dry in one case, and I think I was probably sanding a bit too hard in another. I have several pieces at this point that are about the right shape, I think I'll make a two- or three-piece keel out of those and move on with a lesson or two learned...


Posted by: shawr - on -  03-11-2008

I just wish winter would get over with so I could get back out into the garage workshop and get back to my building!




Posted by: DonaldB - on -  03-16-2008

I've got the stem, keel, and sternpost on now - I finally managed a stem that didn't break.

Now I'm on to the waterline. The practicum says it will show how to draw this waterline in class, which I'm obviously not taking. I've seen in books where a wooden adjustable stand for a pencil has been created to mark the waterline, but I'm wondering if I need to go to that much work - is there an easier way?

Model Shipways could have made this step a breeze by simply marking on the hull templates where the waterline is for that position on the hull. Right before gluing the keel/sternpost/stem on, the line could be transferred from the templates onto the hull and the modeler could use a straight strip of wood (or very thin sheet of styrene) to connect the dots.


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  03-17-2008

Thats exactly one way to do it. But you would need a steady hand to get a good line for the run of the waterline. Just take each template and hold it against the plan to mark the waterline. Then tranfer each line for each each station onto the hull. Then connect the dots so to speak. The other method would also be to raise the bow and use a waterline marker.

Chuck


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-18-2008

right, rather than build an adjustable stand for the pencil, I just had a wood piece on which I could keep the pencil steady and level and then just raised the bow end of the stand that held the hull with shims until the waterline was level.


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  03-24-2008

While I'm waiting for the glue on my stand to dry, I'm looking at the coppering instructions. In the practicum it says to cut the strip down the middle, and cut the resulting strips into 1/4" long pieces. However, I'm not sure if those are the pieces I should be using for the bottom of the keel. The kit instructions show the coppering coming up both sides of the keel and being overlapped by a row above it. The small 1/4" x 1/8" pieces won't be big enough to have this overlap effect, though.

Should I use the strip as-is for the bottom and start the 1/4" x 1/8" strips on the first row above the keel? Or something else?


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  03-25-2008

Hi Don,
I see no reason why you can't start with 1/4" pieces on keel. you will be adjusting with overlaps as you go in order to match up with the waterline. I do recommend using 1/8" wide pieces for all other areas.
It takes longer, but I feel it suits Phantom scale better. Just my opinions.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-25-2008

I concur...1/8" plates look better. For the keel, you don't have to go much wider than 1/8" They don't need to overlap that much, just enough so that you don't have exposed wood along the corners of the keel.


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  03-27-2008

Hello everyone ... another new modeller here!

I am working on the Phantom as my "almost first" model. I am at the Coppering phase as well. I am following the instructions in the Practicum and am coppering the keel. It look pretty good to me, but I do have one question:

The end of the keel has that little piece jutting out. I started from there when coppering the bottom of the keel and on the bottom there is no problem. However, I am wondering if I should place a "full" (one quarter inch long of one eighth inch wide copper is what is considered full, eh?) copper sheet against each side and then cut to shape, or if I should fold a sheet around the wood. Which works better? Or, is there a third and much better way yet?


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-28-2008

I am making some progress on the Phantom. I just installed the traveler, and have a question about how it is rigged (looking ahead some). The instructions show two double blocks - one on the boom and one on the traveler. It looks like the sheet goes around the blocks twice, and the working end goes to the bollard, but where does the other end get tied off to? Is it tied off to the block on the traveler, or is there some other fixture I am not seeing. Chuck's practicum says that the rigging is well documented in the instructions and on the plans, but this is my first model and I am having trouble figuring this out. Thanks for any help.


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  03-28-2008

Take a look at figure 23 on page 13. But there is an error in that drawing. It is actually a single block on the traveler and a double block on the boom. The rigging line is first stroped to the block and then taken up through the sheave on the double block. Then iot comes back down through the single sheave of the block on the traveler. and then back up through the last remaining sheave of the double block on the boom. From here it is taken to I believe another block on deck and then to the bollard. I cant remember for sure. But I also believe if my memory serves me correctly that there is another smaller drawing in the upper left hand corner of one of the plan sheets. Its a small drawing and shows the rigging to good advantage.

Chuck


Posted by: hardingb - on -  03-28-2008

MacGruff,

For the little nub at the aft end of the keel, when coppering the sides:
I don't remember exactly how I did it, but I would imagine I must have overlapped the side pieces slightly so a tiny piece folded over the top of that nub...I don't remember exactly. If so, the folded pieces would be covered by the row of plates that will go up the sternpiece anyway, and then by the rudder, so I don't think it would matter much.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-29-2008

Thanks Chuck - one question though. Isn't that lower block already stropped to the eyebolt under the traveler? Is it possible to have two lines stropped to the same block leading in different directions? What am I missing here? Thanks.


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  03-29-2008

Anytime. Click this link for a drawing on many different types of block stropping. Specifically look at the first drawing in the upper left hand corner. The bottome line is reeved through the slot in the traveler and seized to the eye bolt underneath it. The other one is taken through the double block on the boom and taken around and arouns as mentioned before..

Hope that helps.

http://cpassaro.home.mindspring.com/blockstrops.gif

Chuck


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  03-29-2008

I've learned a few things about the copper strip that came with the model. First of all, I tried cutting the 1/8" strips across the full-width 1/4" strip, as well as cutting the strip down the middle longways, then cutting the resulting two strips into 1/4" strips. I've found that the latter is easier overall - I've just gotten a more consistent cut and size.

I did find one problem with how I've been handling the copper strip - I've been taking it out of its little bag, cutting off 8"-10", then rolling it back up and putting it back in the bag. I think doing this was a mistake - it seems to have the effect of weakening the adhesive bond with the backing, and my "tiles" are much more likely to separate from the backing as I cut them. I think unrollling and re-rolling the strip has caused this.

I'm almost done with the copper on the starboard side and now that I have a rhythm I expect the port side to go a lot faster. But it's taken a long long time.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-30-2008

Thanks again. That diagram is just what I needed.


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  03-31-2008

I've learned a few things about the copper strip that came with the model. First of all, I tried cutting the 1/8" strips across the full-width 1/4" strip, as well as cutting the strip down the middle longways, then cutting the resulting two strips into 1/4" strips. I've found that the latter is easier overall - I've just gotten a more consistent cut and size.

I did find one problem with how I've been handling the copper strip - I've been taking it out of its little bag, cutting off 8"-10", then rolling it back up and putting it back in the bag. I think doing this was a mistake - it seems to have the effect of weakening the adhesive bond with the backing, and my "tiles" are much more likely to separate from the backing as I cut them. I think unrollling and re-rolling the strip has caused this.

I'm almost done with the copper on the starboard side and now that I have a rhythm I expect the port side to go a lot faster. But it's taken a long long time.

I'm taking my time with this stage as well. I read in Mr. Passaro's practicum that he cut 10" long pieces and then cut them in half to be 1/8" wide. Well, that did not work out too well for me. What I've started doing which is working for me is to use 5" segments. They are easier to cut in half. I also ran into the situation you describe and I have been just unrolling the 5" length, cutting it off the roll; cutting it in half lengthwise; then cutting off the 1/4" lengths and then applying them.

To apply them, I use my X-Acto knife to slightly separate one edge of the backing from the copper itself, then pick up the copper with my tweezers and separate out the rest of the backing (which is discarded). I use the tweezers to place the copper over the location I am working on and smoothing it out on the wood with my fingers. I always try to overlap them by a bit so I lay the new copper over the old one first and then smooth it down going away from the "seam".

It's working out OK so far.

I've also completed constructing and cutting out the rudder. I've shaped it now so it gets narrower as it goes out. I am wondering about the size of the divot to make for it. The Practicum talks of making a 3/16" hole with a drill but that seems awfully large to me. What have others done?


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  03-31-2008

That is exactly how I did the copper although I was able to cut the 10" lengths in half using a cork backed steel ruler.

The 3/16" hole is too big. I measured the size of the rudder that goes into the hull and used a slightly larger bit for the hole.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  04-14-2008

I uploaded some new pictures of progress so far. I am finishing up the deck fittings and will be moving to the bow spirit soon. Overall, I am pleased, although you will see there is much room for improvement. Comments welcome.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  04-14-2008

Hi Tom,
Your work looks great. Nice crisp clean lines. The Phantom is a great model to start this hobby with. You definately have the talent for it.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  04-15-2008

Thanks for the kind words Dennis. I am definitely having a lot of fun with this kit.

I do have another question though. On the plans and in the Practicum it shows the loops along the bow spirit (I forgot what they are called). I can't tell, though, if they are just on the starboard side or are on both sides. Every picture I have found shows the model from the starboard side for some reason.

Thanks everyone for the help.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  04-15-2008

looking good, Tom.
The gaskets go on both sides, I believe (at least that's how I did it).


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  04-22-2008

I've been away for a while after getting frustrated with the first kit I picked up, the Willie L. Bennett. That kit is listed as an entry-level kit on modelexpo-online.com, but I truly beg to differ! Imagine my surprise when I opened the box, having never purchased a ship kit before and finding 3 pages of plans, a casually written instruction manual and a bag of sticks.

Anyway, since this is the Phantom thread, I decided to get this kit since it has the rebate and all. Even better, I am able to claim the rebate through my local model shop (Tammie's Hobbies in Beaverton, OR). I've already had a much better time with the Phantom that I ever had with the Willie Bennett. My progress so far is limited to shaping the hull and, um, buying tools.

Since everyone loves pictures, here's an exciting shot of the hull with much of the aft end carved to shape. Click for bigness.


I am very excited with how quickly it is actually going. There is so much less interpreting involved with this kit that there was with the Willie Bennett since I can follow this and the previous Phantom thread, as well as Mr. Passaro's incredibly helpful guide. I hope to be able to contribute more as I make progress.


Posted by: jemontgomery - on -  04-22-2008

Brian: Howdy neighbor. I too "haunt" Tammie's.
As Spock's brother says "I feel your pain" Not being familiar with Willie L. I checked it at ME; definately not a "beginner's kit" (plank on frame), as a matter of fact the info. doesn't give a level on my screen. You'll like Phantom much better. Enjoy.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  04-22-2008

I've heard complaints about the Willie Bennett kit before, but I didn't realize they were advertising it as Entry Level. Honestly, with their standard instructions, I doubt that any of their kits are really entry level. Thank goodness for Chuck's instructions. Have fun with Phantom, looks like you're off to a good start.


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  04-24-2008

Minor update on my Phantom: I've finished shaping the hull and am as happy as I'll ever be I think. The templates don't all fit exactly but I have spent hours on sanding (by hand!) and I don't think I could ever get them all "just right". So I've put the templates away and have moved on. I spent the bulk of the evening shaping the step. What a time-consuming task that was but I am really happy with how well it came out.

I measured down from the top of the bulwarks 1/8" by using one of the 1/8"x1/8"x12" pieces in the kit. I scored along the line I made with a #11 blade that I made a depth-gauge out of with some electrical tape covering all but the first 1/32" of the tip. Scraping away the material with my knife, I checked the depth with a piece of 1/32"x3/32"x12" from the kit. I sanded the insides of the step smooth with a tiny homemade sanding block (150 grit sand paper superglued to a scrap of 1/16" thick basswood).

Anyway sorry for going on about this relatively simple step in the process but I am quite proud of how well it all went!


Posted by: jemontgomery - on -  04-24-2008

Brian:
Your hull looks very good. As long as you are "happy" with it, that's what counts. I think you'll enjoy the Phantom, the rest of it will go faster than you think.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  04-24-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
The templates don't all fit exactly


That's ok, it will still come out looking like a ship, and no-one's going to be coming along and taking measurements off your model. It looks darned good to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Anyway sorry for going on about this relatively simple step in the process but I am quite proud of how well it all went!


I understand the feeling...the little victories feel great, don't they. I always feel like cheering (and somtimes I do cheer) when I figure out a problem, or turn out something I'm particularly proud of.
Plus, these build logs are important. In a few weeks, someone will be wondering how to shape that step, and will come across your post and have a good example to work from.

Keep up the good work. You've got the hardest part coming up next...shaping the deck and bulwarks, and then the rest is a breeze.


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  04-27-2008

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words Ben and James. I am having a good time so far with the Phantom. I got some time today to work on the kit today and have added the keel, stem and stern post. I have also begun coppering. I can tell it is going to take a while but it is pretty easy to get in "the zone" and before you know it an hour has passed.

Here are some pics of my progress. I am using the suggestion in the practicum of cutting the tape down the middle and using 1/8"x1/4" plates. I think it looks good from any normal distance but using the macro mode on my camera reveals plates that are "askew".



Can't wait to get some more done!


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  04-27-2008

Mine are "askew" as well, but they look ok. Yours look like mine. I think the really important row is going to be the one at the waterline, which I spent a lot of time getting right. As long as the others mostly flow with each other, you'll be fine.

I screwed up my decking today - I was cutting out the aft section from the scored sheet, and somehow convinced myself to save as much material as I could from the sheet and outline the cut in the corner of the sheet. But doing that meant that the deck "planks" were not straight. Brilliant! So I'm trying to save as much as I can from that piece, and will add another piece to it that fills in the missing spot. This won't be a fatal error by any means, but I sure goofed it.


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  04-28-2008

Brian,

Thanks for the pics and good luck on your ongoing progress!

I do have a question for you about the latest pics: I think I see that you coppered the keel by lapping the copper plates in a "U" shape around the keel. Is that correct? I thought the way the instruction book shows is to go along the keel with one set of plates along the bottom, and the next two along the sides?

Also, going in from the stern to the area where the boat's bottom curves out, you stop the rows and then started a row that goes along the contour; why are you doing it that way?


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  04-28-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruff
Brian,

Thanks for the pics and good luck on your ongoing progress!

I do have a question for you about the latest pics: I think I see that you coppered the keel by lapping the copper plates in a "U" shape around the keel. Is that correct? I thought the way the instruction book shows is to go along the keel with one set of plates along the bottom, and the next two along the sides?

Also, going in from the stern to the area where the boat's bottom curves out, you stop the rows and then started a row that goes along the contour; why are you doing it that way?


I did the "U Shape" plates along the keel because I was concerned that running them length-wise might result in bare spots due to my lack of a steady hand when cutting the plates. I figured a U shape would cover the whole keel well, and I actually did run another row of plates along the bottom to cover the seams.

I cut across the stern rows with a curved one because that's what it looks like Chuck Passaro did in his practicum (page 6). Ultimately I decided that I would copper the hull in the way that made the most sense to me since my goal was to learn the process and have fun rather that reproduce every detail in the most historically accurate way.


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  04-29-2008

Progress report: I've finished the coppering and thinned the bulwarks. The deck is shaped to my liking and I'm getting ready glue the planking sheets. I've carved out the step down for the cockpit as well.



Also, I picked up some detail sanding tools that are really great. If you're tired of folding little squares of sandpaper and making makeshift sanding blocks, you might want to consider these things. They look similar to these: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?...&filter=sanding


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  04-29-2008

Thanks for the reply, Brian, it makes perfect sense to me.

You've made lots of progress in a short amount of time - good for you!!


Posted by: Absolut_Brian - on -  05-01-2008

I've made some more headway and begun painting the hull. The color I chose is called Grimy Black by Floquil. The pic below shows one coat. I plan on using at least two coats, depending on how it looks after sanding.

Also visible in this pic is the installed deck planking. I really agonized over what kind of glue to use for this step but settled on 5 minute epoxy. I think I would have preferred contact adhesive but didn't want to go out and buy some just for this. Actually pva glue would have worked pretty well but I was concerned about curling the thin sheet and clamping for the 30+ minutes it takes pva to set.



I'm noticing that the more I handle the model, the dirtier the copper plates get from fingerprints and such. Does anyone have suggestions for cleaning them?


Posted by: DonaldB - on -  05-14-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian

I'm noticing that the more I handle the model, the dirtier the copper plates get from fingerprints and such. Does anyone have suggestions for cleaning them?


Personally, I wouldn't try to keep them super shiny. I think the worn/used look of the "handled" copper would look more realistic for a working ship.

To update my progress, I decided to ask Model Expo for a replacement sheet of deck material. They sent it right away (for free!) and I was disappointed to see that the color was much darker than the cream color of the one that came with the kit. It also has long swooping wood grain lines through it. However, the more I looked at it the more I like the contrast of the dark decking against the light bulwarks and light "step" in the middle of the deck. I believe the grain lines will be mostly obscured by other parts of the ship, so it should not turn out to be a problem.

I marked out the rectangles for the scuppers yesterday and will be drilling/cutting them sometime in the next few days. I hope to paint the hull this weekend. But who knows?


Posted by: hardingb - on -  05-15-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
I'm noticing that the more I handle the model, the dirtier the copper plates get from fingerprints and such. Does anyone have suggestions for cleaning them?


Hmm, I must have overlooked this question last time I checked this thread.

I had that problem too. While I was coppering the hull, some areas got tarnished more than others, and you could see finger prints in the tarnish. I liked the look of the tarnished area more (I didn't think that bright shiny copper would be too realistic) but I didn't like that it was uneven. So I wound up using a metal polish, brasso, to clean it up. After I had done so, a couple people told me that it would have evened out by itself, with time.

So it's up to you which way you want to go. The uneven look will not be that noticable once the ship is finished and mounted. It will be on the underside of the model, and most people will be looking at the deck and rigging anyway.

After I had used the brasso, the copper was bright and shiny, but now (six months later) it has darkened a bit to a nice dull look. I like it much better now.


Posted by: Davit - on -  05-15-2008

Hello guys ,
Correct me if I am wrong , but un-coated (raw) plate copper developes a pitina when exposed to air and water . Salt water (oceans) turns copper plate black , while copper sheet exposed to air and weather( roof tops) , turns a "greenish" color . Years ago , the old copper plates from the hull of HMS Victory were sold to tourists for souvenirs-- they were a dull blackish color .

HOLD FAST !


Posted by: hardingb - on -  05-15-2008

On one of the forums (may have been DDM) there is a long thread with much commentary on the appearance of copper plates. The thread has photos of different ships and copper plating in various stages of oxidation.

Some say that the movement of the ship through the water has a scouring effect on the copper plating, giving them a clean (though not shiny) pinkish appearance. A ship in dry dock would slowly develop a patina. So it all depends on what look you're going for.


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  05-16-2008

I learned or developed a small improvement on how to copper plate the bottom of the Phantom which I wanted to share with you all. I did not see it mentioned elsewhere here, so if it has already been thought of, then great, and please disregard this note.

The practicum tells you to cut strips of the copper tape into 10" lengths, then split them into two lengthwise so you end up with 1/8" wide strips and then chop those into 1/4" lengths which you apply individually to the ship's body. I started with those instructions and it seemed to take me forever to get through and install the plates.

The first modification I made was to change the orientation of the copper strip: When I started, I had the copper strip laid along my mat directly on top of the markings and I laid the steel ruler at a 90 degree angle across it to cut each piece. After one piece was cut, it took me a long time to reposition the ruler and make sure it was straight and in the right location. So, I turned the ruler around by 90 degrees so that it now lay along the strip and on top of it. I had the end with the hole in it at the side where I was working. Now, what I was doing was cutting a strip off, applying it to the ship, then moving the ruler along the tape for the 1/4" and repeating. This was much faster for me.

The second modification came when I realized that the copper tape was exactly 1/4" wide. I measured it in several places along the length and it was always 1/4" wide. I do not know if I am simply lucky, or if this is the way Model Shipways always sends out the tape, but there you have it.

Now what I do is to lay out the copper tape along the measuring marks on my mat. I lay the ruler along the top of the tape and move it so that 1/8" of an inch shows beyond the edge of the ruler. Cut that portion off and I have a 1/8" by 1/4" plate. Apply it; move the ruler by 1/8" and repeat.

I find that this way I am about 5 times more "productive" than before. It is actually a pleasure to work on the model again as before it was a drudge. If I could take the quality pictures I see from others here, I would do so and post them, but I hope that my explanations are not too obtuse.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  05-16-2008

I've been working along and added some pictures of the progress. I completed the deck details at the bow, added and rigged the bow spirit, and installed the masts. I am now starting on the mast rigging. I made two attempts already on the Main Topmast Stay and the Triatic Stay, but I was not pleased with the results, so I will try again. The larger rope/thread really wants to pull the masts together before the slack is taken up, so any hints on how to get the stays to look tight without pulling the masts together would be helpful. Thanks.


Posted by: hardingb - on -  05-19-2008

I found that since MS uses flat spools rather than round, the poly thread holds a zig-zag pattern when you unwind it from the spool. So I hung lengths of it with weights attached to straighten it out. Seemed to work a bit.

But also remember, that you will also have rigging that will pull the masts aft and will straighten the stays. What I did was apply slight pressure with my fingers to pull the mast (or topmast) back into position while figuring out how long the triatic and topmast stays should be. They will not be taut until you finish the running rigging on the main mast, but once that's done, everything will balance out.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  05-19-2008

Thanks Ben. I was hoping that was going to be the case. I have the shrouds done and they pulled the mast back some, so I can see this happening already.

I never thought I would like tying little knots so much.


Posted by: slivesay - on -  05-19-2008

MacGruff,
Thanks for that tip. I had not even thought about measuring the width of the copper tape. I am getting ready to start coppering and this definitely should make it easier as it only requires 1 cut not 2. Hopefully 1/4" is standard


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  05-20-2008

You're welcome, slivesay, another trick you might want to try is NOT to cut all the way through the backing tape. That way you need apply less pressure to the tape, and you can use the point of the knife to peel off the edge of the tape, then use tweezers to pick the copper off the backing and apply it directly to the boat hull. Works for me.

Another advantage to this is that when I was moving the ruler before, I was using the knife point to hold the tape in place. That would leave a very small indentation in the copper tape. With my new "refinement" I hold the backing with the knife and so no indentations!


Posted by: pinkerton - on -  06-01-2008

Well, I am joining the Phantom club. After about a week's worth of work, I have finished shaping the exterior of the hull and have carved the "step" into the bulwarks. This is my first woodworking project ever so, although it's not perfect, I'm happy with the results so far.

(My goal for this project is only to not do anything catastrophically wrong -- all the little mistakes will just be chalked up as part of the learning experience !)



I have to admit that it took a LONG time to get the hull exterior to even passably resemble the templates. For the carving, I just used the beginners toolkit provided by Model Shipways, a rasp I had, and lots of sandpaper. Perhaps I should have invested in better tools -- maybe then my hands wouldn't be so sore.

Chuck's practicum has been a HUGE help so far.

Steve


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  06-02-2008

Looks good Steve. I am also in Massachusetts, working on the Phantom. I am at the rigging stage, though. I have another month or so to finish it up to get the Model Expo credit. One more gaff to go, and then some other rigging and I will be done.

Keep plugging. Making the deck structures and the rigging has been a lot of fun.

Tom


Posted by: dostacos - on -  06-03-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
She's not the prettiest girl at the ball but here she is as promised:
hope mine turns out that well


Posted by: dostacos - on -  06-05-2008

my kit arrives Saturday but I was wondering does the kit come with the "dry dock" that is shown in the pictures?


Posted by: jemontgomery - on -  06-05-2008

Dan: Yes it does. There is an ample supply of wood to construct it.


Posted by: dostacos - on -  06-07-2008

well time to clean off the workbench my kit has arrived, sure is a big box for the contents


Posted by: hardingb - on -  06-09-2008

Hooray! I love the feeling of starting a new model...have fun with her, Don.


Posted by: Spankydude1 - on -  06-09-2008

Hi Dan,
I know the excitement. You will learn a lot from the Phantom and end up with a great model. Chucks practicum is a great learning tool. Remember, during those times when you say "I don't think I can do this", you can. I know I said it many times.


Posted by: Davit - on -  06-09-2008

Hi Dan -- I can almost feel your excitement -- nothin" like opening a new kit , just like starting a new adventure -- raise anchors and set sails !! Good luck with your build !


HOLD FAST !


Posted by: pinkerton - on -  06-13-2008

The sternpost, keel, and stem are now attached. Cutting out the stem with the hobby knives was a lot harder than I anticipated (maybe my knives aren't sharp enough.) The lower part of the stem is a little rough, but I'm hoping this will be partially hidden by the copper plating. I'm pretty happy with how the sternpost came out, though.





Posted by: Davit - on -  06-13-2008

Hi Steve --

lookin' fine -- good job ! - did you use a flash to take the pics- they are a bit dark ?



HOLD FAST !


Posted by: pinkerton - on -  06-13-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
Hi Steve --

lookin' fine -- good job ! - did you use a flash to take the pics- they are a bit dark ?



HOLD FAST !


No, I didn't. After I had finished loading them into the computer, I realized the flash setting was turned off Will have to take some brighter ones during the next step.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  06-25-2008

Well, I have completed the Phantom within the 6 month period, and have already received the credit from Model Expo. I have posted photos of the completed model in the gallery. It was a lot of fun between some frustration, but I am looking forward to starting the Sultana in the Fall.


Posted by: Davit - on -  06-25-2008

Hi Tom -

your Phantom looks good - nice work . Several members have built Sultana , so I am sure you will get loads of helpful tips in the forum. Good luck with your new build .


HOLD FAST !


Posted by: hardingb - on -  06-25-2008

CONGRATS Tom!!! Your Phantom looks great. If you're going to work on Sultana in the fall, hopefully I will be ready to get back to her by then.


Posted by: usedtosail - on -  06-26-2008

Thanks guys for the kind words. I guess this is pretty indicative of this hobby, but I couldn't wait until Fall and just ordered the Sultana. I kept looking at the empty workbench last night...


Posted by: Davit - on -  06-26-2008

Tom -

you are in the twilight zone - "between models" - my suggestion would be to take some scrap lumber and scratch build some deck fittings -- deck houses , doors , cabin hatch ways , barrels , etc - you get the idea - it makes good practice for later


HOLD FAST !


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  06-27-2008

That's pretty funny, Gary!


Posted by: Davit - on -  06-27-2008

Hi -

funny ? > I suppose my comments could be taken as humorous . I assumed you would want to progress to scratch building some day , most do -- perhaps not ................


HOLD FAST !


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  06-30-2008

I thought it was funny for two reasons:

1. You are making an assumption that we all want to get to the point where we build every model from scratch using our own research. I do not know if all of us have that same goal (but my guess is that most of the people on this board are in that category!)

2. I came to this hobby after having built furniture for a hobby for over 20 years. Talk about working from scratch!!!

:-)


Posted by: pinkerton - on -  07-01-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
It was a lot of fun between some frustration, but I am looking forward to starting the Sultana in the Fall.


I'm a bit late, but I also wanted to add that your completed model looks great!


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  07-28-2008

Hi everyone. I could use some advice with my Phantom model.

Over the weekend I finished coppering the hull and painting the outside in Black. Looking at the Practicum, the next step is to carve the step in the deck to a depth of 3 mm. So, I started by squaring up the edges. After much scraping and cuttting with my X-Accto knife, I found that the center of the step was at about 2 mm and a bit more towards the ends (camber).

So, now the question: how important is the 3 mm dimension? or, is a 2 mm step sufficiently large.

Thanks for the advice!


Posted by: ChuckPassaro - on -  07-28-2008

The step doesnt need to be exactly 3mm but it is important that whatever measurement you choose be consistant. To finish the face of the step you will glue a piece of strip stock against it. If the step is deeper at the sides it will be very noticeable when the model is fnished.

Chuck


Posted by: MacGruff - on -  07-29-2008

Thanks. I was thinking that 3 mm vs 2 mm would make very little difference as long as I was consistent. Thanks for the heads up on not putting in too much camber!!


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