I am starting this thread as I begin building my first Model Shipways kit. I am aware of a few out there who have already built this kit, and one builder who is awaiting delivery (while working to finish his beautiful Bluenose). It may start out as somewhat "talking to myself", though I am hoping others who know this kit might chime in when they recognize familiar building situations with the kit.
As an Artesania builder till now, this kit has already introduced numerous new construction techniques. Single planking, all basswood, no ply sheets anywhere on the kit...and an instruction manual and plans with undescribable detail compared to what I've seen previously. Though I've not yet put glue to wood, I have already found one item I may "adjust" on the model (a small "rail" under the caprail that matches with the bulwark stanchions, will affect rail height...EDIT: nevermind, it's there, Plan sheet 2, the inboard stringer...). The rigging plan does indeed have the ratlines and battens on the standing rigging, it wasn't visible in the catalog photos.
The detailed instructions will smooth the construction, while some of the construction techniques (and scratch building) will introduce new challenges. The detail and accuracy of the kit will be a test.
I am currently shaping (sanding) bulkheads to the correct(ish) bevels, and plan on cutting and shaping the rabbet this weekend. I made a small adjustment in the bulkhead K notch to get my reference lines aligned (and the upper corners aligned with the sheer of the other bulkheads). Then a slow careful installation of the bulkheads. I have a few tools to buy (french curve, files, clothespins, etc) that will help in the build. I've learned that staining basswood is questionable, and there is a fair amount of brightwork on the Pride II. I plan to do a bit of "testing" in this area before crunch time.
Finally, I have my copy of the MS "Planking the Built-Up Ship Model" booklet, the planking will be a careful blend of this and the kit plan. (note to self...add dividers to shopping list).
I've about memorized the first several pages of the manual... :coffee:

Dave (need a Pride II avatar!!)

Dave (need a Pride II avatar!!)......
Aye, Aye Matey!
Pride of Baltimore II (http://www.shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/profile.php?do=editavatar&categoryid=13&page=4)

I suddenly got an itch to go "rabbet hunting"...
I got my knife, flat needle file and sandpaper and went to work on the starboard side rabbet. A bit of carving, a bunch of filing and sanding. The port rabbet is a bit cleaner, no carving there, just filing and sanding...lots around the "deadwood" area in the flat stern of the keel.
Now, off shopping for supplies, then back to the bulkhead tapers...

Dave

Having never carved a rabbet, this is interesting...I have discovered a couple ot things. Symmetry is important, if your bearding lines are off kilter with each other, this can lead to unequal rabbets on either side of the keel. Also, the tape I put down as a middle marker did help in keeping a "centerline" as I shaved away the rabbet. I have since gone a bit deeper, as I was finding uneven rabbets in the stern. Then I realized I have about a 1/32" twist in the false keel. When it's weighted down flat, the rabbet appears about equal on both sides. I tacked the keel on temporarily with a couple of dots of white glue, looks good, but I will be using dowels to secure it come real glueing time.
I've got the stern rabbet "slopes" as flat as I can manage, nice and smooth, time to stop fiddling with that (before I mess it up!). I have the two bottom pieces of the keel/stem glued together and drying on the kitchen counter (flattest spot in the house!!). Then I'll taper those per the plan and glue/dowel them in place, tapering and adding the stern and stem pieces after.
I actually glued something finally. Thus far, I have already learned much which makes approaching some of the Latina type kits much less "concerning".
Still have bulkheads to shave and bevel too...
Incidently, there is a small piece on the false keel, a sliver between the C bulkhead slot and the foremast slot...this puppy likes to break off, temporary reienforcement not a bad idea.

Dave

Hi Dave,
I am in the midst of working on the Model Shipways Niagara, and approaced the rabbet with the same trepidation(this too is my first SERIOUS wooden ship kit). The biggest problem I had was in transfering or laying out, as it were the lines from the drawings to the keel. All in all though, it turned out well. MS parts fit is outstanding with their laser cut materials!! Only had to shim one bulkhead to get it flush with the top of the keel. I used a dremel tool and careful carving for the rabbett, and was pleased with the results. Currently I am preparing to plank the deck, and am working on hatch combings. Was interested to hear about your experiences with the Pride, as that, I believe will be my next kit. Was on board her up in Bay City two years ago, and have been fascinated with her ever since. Really enjoying the MS kit!! Good luck and keep me posted.
Bob

Hi Bob,

Well, I really have a rabbet now, I have finally gotten some wood glue and after final touchups on the carved/filed/sanded rabbet and some careful fit checks, i put glue to wood and installed the "real" keel over the "false" one and weighted it down to dry. Later I installed the stem and stern keel pieces...it turned out real nice, a real even slot for all the plank ends.
I still don't have dividers, I used a metal metric ruler and a good pair of reading glasses to transfer the bearding line position at each bulkhead slot position from the plans on page 1. I never quite "got" the bearding line/rabbet thing before now...now I got it, having marked and carved same!
I've drilled the dowel holes in the keel, will use round toothpicks for that. Then need to taper the keel per the plans, and get on the bulkheads. Also gotta install the mast blocks, that little piece forward of the foremast got knocked loose again!
I have roughly a .5 mm twist in the keel, upper stern to lower stem, need to keep an eye on this.
Good luck on your Niagra, that is a really beautiful ship!

Dave

A very productive, and enjoyable, day.
I started by filing down a toothpick to act as a dowel for the keel/false keel interface. When filed way down to fit the hole, I realized this isn't as strong as i'd like (I used a small drill bit). I found some straight garden wire, and filed it down to fit the other holes (forgot/missed the far one in the bow). Nice stong connections.
Then I started on the keel tapering per the plan. I filed (using my trusty flat needle file) some sample tapers, then proceeded to connect them by further filing. This took a long time, and I came to use a sharply tapered triangular needle file to flatten the taper faces...learning new techniques as I go.
In the process of working on the bow keel taper, the bow keel connection came a bit loose (the rabbet was filed pretty narrow). I then installed the missing bow dowel (wire), and finished the keel taper work.
Then, on to finishing the bulkhead bevels. Filing, sanding, it took time but it is done. I did manage to snap the thin M bulkhead at the narrow keel notch in the process, which was finished and glued back together. The installation glueing will strengthen this joint.
It was a nice building day, somehow the tedium I was concerned about never happened, I was in "the zone". While focusing on all the filing, my mind wandered to other things, somewhat mesmerizing.
I have gotten into Stage A step 4 (some already done), the bulkhead install is next. This will take time with all the alignment checks.
It's going very well thus far, minor hiccups along the way. Small steps...

Dave

The hull, complete with bulkheads, has a twist...nothing like on the Scottish Maid, probably less than a degree, but it's there...the wife noticed it when I showed her.
I'm thinking of devising some sort of jig to hold the ends of the hull in line while I get some of the planking done. Hopefully that will stiffen it up.
The alignment of the frame is done, the bulkheads were quite straight, there were a couple that were very slightly off port to starboard.
The warp showed up during bulkhead install apparently, it was, best as I can tell, dead flat after I installed the keel. The keel is still showing straight on top and bottom, looking along down from the bow, the misalignment seems to start somewhere in the aft end.
Any ideas here appreciated...what am I (still) doing wrong...small voice is saying order the wood from MS and rebuild it from scratch. Pics going up in my POB album.
Edit: I have it in the keel holder with a weight looped over the third to last bulkhead, going over the top, and gently twisting the rear keel straight. I occasionally paint some water on the false keel, it's "straight" with the weight applied, will let it sit through the nite and see what this does...
Dave

Update on the POB and hull twist issue.
The twist came about sometime during (because of?) the bulkhead installation. It is slight, but noticable.
Last night I strung a weight from a loop over a rear starboard bulkhead (J, IIRC), ran it across the bulkhead and let it dangle over the port side, gently pulling the stern into line. I applied water to the keel from time to time, then off to bed.
In the morning, it was better, still not straight though. I restrung the weight this morning, did the water thing some more and it sat for some 6 hours. More improvement. I believe one more "treatment" should do it. Then I will do a realignment, measuring bulkhead distances etc, probably put some stiffeners in between the bulkheads.
I was really despairing over this, but it seems this fix is working. Next model, I will build a straight keel jig that will hold things straight while the bulkheads go on. Meanwhile, I will be checking alignment on this hull a lot, until the planking is well along.
Learning, sometimes painfully, as I go...

Dave

My kit is somewhat on hold until I can get the hull twist out, working on a jig for holding it during the initial planking, plus some more weight treatments.
It appears I'll have company here, after Chris chose the "manly" route and the Royal Caroline (no small challenge there, but a lovely subject!)! Rick has an older version of the kit, it will be interesting to see what the differences are. He does have the two piece false keel as opposed to the new one piece.
The game is afoot!

Dave

Hi Dave,
I'm working on my 2 piece center keel, 1994 MS kit. I'm sure working along together this will help us get through this build. I'll put up pictures soon.

Rick

Rick and I have been PM'ing a bunch as we start working together. He is working on "catching up", as I am sort of in a holding pattern until my keel/bulkhead assembly gets straightened out...literally.
I can see the enormous value already of working alongside you Rick...although the kits are of significantly different age, it's still pretty much the same plans and the same wood. It should prove interesting as we find small differences in the instructions as we proceed.
I have beed stressing the importance of a nice straight keel assembly as the assembly progresses...mine got crooked somewhere along the way and now I am paying for it....I'd rather be planking!!! Mr Mastini was very correct in stressing this aspect in his book!!!
I've just put on another layer of water on my weighted and aligned keel/bulkhead assembly, won't know the final results till tomorrow when it has dried and been removed from the keel holder for a while (it tends to spring back some after a while).
Once I have a straight keel, I'll be adding some bulkhead braces then doing the fairing process with the temporary battens.
No rush Rick, I'm busy circling and fixing my goof.. BTW, what other kits have you worked on? This is my first MS kit, a whole 'nother world for me.
Dave

somehow repeated last post...
anyway, just a thought. When using wood glue, I am going to now use small amounts, just enough to do the job. I also build model rockets, and we really slather on the glue to make "fillets' in the fin/body joint. I did this on my POB in installing the bulkheads, probably in an assymetrical fashion, and this could have contributed to the hull twist/warp issue as the water based glue soaked in.
Take your time Rick, I'm not going to be racing on with this puppy. Once the hull is straight to my liking, I'll be going back to remeasuring bulkhead distance alignment and such.
After my experience with the AL Scottish Maid, then this warp, I'm kind of "sensitive" to warped frames....but I'm now learning to deal with them before they become permanant, I hope.

Dave

Dave,
Just to let it be known about the 2 piece center keel. When matched to the blue print, it is about 1/8" shorter than the plan in length. I don't think this will be a major problem. I didn't do any sanding at the joint, so I have to believe it is a result of laser cutting of parts.
Just to up-date you: I'm working on carving the bearding now, it really isn't as difficult as one might think. I should be finished with it shortly. When I'm ready to glue up the keel/stem stern pieces, I think I'll pre-drill a 1/16"hole so I can anchor these on with a dowell also. I started to rough shape the bulkheads to get a head start on fairing. I'm not carving them down as far as the plans show so I can fair the whole frame assembly as a unit.
It's really great working together, great idea!
Rick
PS: over 100 wood, 5 started, also 600 plastic. Got hooked on Ebay!!! :bonk:

Great stuff this forum, eh?
I actually used stiff thin floral wire to "dowel" my keel. Once the keel was glued and dried, I drilled the holes and filed the wire down in diameter to fit...that keel isn't doing anywhere!!
Watching my hull like a hawk after removing the weight...it's straight so far, waiting to see if it moves out of line again.
Dave

Hi guys, these posts may be of interest - Twisted Keel (http://shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?threadid=173), and Re: Found more Best Glues (http://shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/post586-3.html)
If the twist you wind up with isn't too bad, the hull planking may straiten it out.
John

Thanks for jumping in John. I think the twist has Dave twisted, HA,HA!!!
I hope Dave sees your suggestion. I think I'll be installing bulkheads sometime this afternoon. Don't want to do the TWIST tho...can't dance anymore!
Rick

Well, looking at the hull now out of it's holder, it's at the point that I can't tell if it's a minute twist or just some bulkheads needing fairing...therefore, the saga is over, time to quit my nitpicking and move on.
Dave (no longer twisted!!!)

Well, I'm comitted now...done with my "twist and shout" business...
I tossed Master and Commander into the DVD player on my computer, hauled out some spare 1/2 and 1/4" basswood sticks and proceeded to start stiffen the hull up. I did do an alignment check for bulkhead squareness and such, appears to be dead on.
I glued short lengths between the bulkheads out toward the upper outer edges where they'll do the most good. The frame is drying now, but is already substantially stiffer, should hold up to the sanding block nicely. I did take care to use a minimal amount of glue and carefully sanded the braces to length so as not to distort the bulkhead positioning.
Next comes the batten check, need to get some very narrow pins for positioning the battens.
I'm also studying the plans for the transom framing filler block, should be an interesting shaping process there...
One thing I did notice, reading ahead, was that it indicated that the planks will be shaped according to measurements taken from the plans. Now, we're talking a two dimensional drawing showing the side view of a 3 dimensional curved hull...it would seem the lower planks will actually be a bit wider than shown on the plan because of the hull curvature. I am planning on using the MS Planking the Built Up Ship Model book technique, with the space between the final battens being carefully measured/divided and the individual planks shaped accordingly. Rick, if you don't have this little gem, I suggest ordering it, it's a great, short, explanation on what seems a very sound process.
Incidently, despite my kit coming with the one piece keel, the instructions and the plans reflect the two piece version, reckon the change happened sometime between '94 and now...
Dave

Dave,
Glad your model is turning out more to your liking and it passes the square and straightness tests.
I finished attaching the keel/stem stern pieces and set my weights on the whole thing to keep it flat. I used a piece of 1/16th inch dowell inserted into holes I drill through them and into the center keel. So your plans show the 2 piece center keel I have? How about that! Just another step for me.
Planking: MS instructions page #16, fig. 21 shows how we are going to do planking at the lower sternpost. Page #18, fig. 22 shows how we are going to do planking at the lower stem. I'm keeping these marked for reference. I'm also keeping in mind, if you agree, that the first plank under the planksheer is simple, and the wale should be fairly easy. I think I can see this from the print. I It's a good idea to have a plan in mind.
What do you think,
Rick

Sound good...
I'm still trying to figure out why the instructions want the planksheer and bulwark stanchions installed so early if they are not planked until after the main hull planking. I am studying this, but it seems that the first plank above the wale will be flush with the top of the bulkheads (to mate with the planksheer which won't be there yet), then plank the wale, then "head on down" the belts. Then the planksheer, stanchions and mainrail can be installed. I can see no reason to install all that stuff above the deck so early, can you?
Yes, the first plank is just straight and untapered, the three wale strakes will be slightly tapered, I'll be doing all the tapered planks in "pairs" to ensure symmetry. Then it's installing and measuring the belt battens and really getting to work...My old technique was to do some upper planking, then some lower planking, and meeting in the middle...not real sure how I will do this on this kit. I am suspecting just top to bottom will be the simplest.
It's nice to be progressing again, as I study the hull planking layout drawing (upper right drawing on sheet 2 of 6) it all makes sense now, measuring wise.
This is very absorbing...
Dave

Well Dave,
I finished the center keel, all pieces glued up and marked out. Also have the bulkheads rough cut using the plan. I was going to start assembling the bulkheads onto the keel, but I was trying to put pictures of the parts on the site first. Tried to put them on for a couple of hours. The system won't take the download. I have a Kodak Easy Share camera. Maybe that's a problem. I really want to show you my progress, so I'll wait before I start putting together the framework.
Hope I figure this piture problem out,
Rick

Rick, if you're having problems with uploading photos, send me a PM,
John

Looking good there Rick. As I looked at the photo with the bulkheads, it goes without saying that the M bulkhead needs kid glove treatment...that's another piece I did manage to snap...though it now has a 1/4" reinforcing stick securing it to L so it's "safe" now...
Gotta get my camera back from my son...

Dave

Dave,
I'll probably assemble the frames tomorrow. I'm going to use support between bulkheads, too. I'm going to make a pattern for the stern counter block. It should be an interesting 2 pieces to make. I have a scroll saw, but I don't think it's needed on these pieces.
Rick