When a gunport is located in the area that the wale passes through, do you replicate the wale on the lid of the gunport?
thanks
slowlearner

Hello Jim,I am no expert but my guess would be that the wales would be also on the cannon port lids.Not only for the protection of the ship but also for the æsthetics purpouses.Hoping that my explaination helps you out.Walt

Would the wales actually have any openings? I thought wales were structural items and openings such as gun ports would reduce their integrity.

Richard

Hello Richard.....A very good point.Im thinking that we have to know what ship that slowlearner is asking about.The ship that I am building has two wales just above each cannon battery port and starboard with no wales running through the cannon ports.There is a band of four wales that run on each side of the ship well below the cannon ports.Cheers Walt

Automerged Post:
Hello Richard.....A very good point.Im thinking that we have to know what ship that slowlearner is asking about.The ship that I am building has two wales just above each cannon battery ports both port and starboard with no wales running through the cannon ports.There is a band of four wales that run on each side of the ship well below the cannon ports.Cheers Walt

I agree. The history of this ship ( Prins Willem ) is that when war broke out they added as many cannon as they could. The gun ports run in nice straight lines from the bow, but the aft portion looks like a HMS Victory wannebe. They put 4 levels of guns in a space where there may have been none previously.

So, any experts out there that can help me with the question?


..............................................
I'm trying (first time) to get a picture of the Prins Willem replica to show. In the lower left of this photo you can see 2 gunports cut in the wale. If you can make the picture bigger, its easier to see. The picture is in my gallery if thats the only way to make it bigger.

thanks

Slow


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[url=http://shipmodeling.net/photopost/data/1118/23685366.jpg]http://shipmodeling.net/photopost/data/1118/thumbs/23685366.jpg[/url

Referring to “Navy Board Ship Models, 1650-1750” by John Franklin:

A photograph of British Admiralty model “Boyne”, a third rate two decker of 80 guns, actually built at Deptford Dockyard in 1692, clearly has no whale strakes on its aft two gun port lids. The after most gun port almost cuts through the entire strake.

The wreathed gun ports on the upper gun deck, which is covered by a poop deck, pass through two smaller strakes. The strakes are not on the lids.

The same is true of a photograph of an unknown third rate of 70 guns, C1702.

A photograph of the Admiralty model "Marlborough", a second rate of 90 guns built in 1706 does not have strakes on the gun port lids.

A photograph of the Admiralty model "Devonshire", a third rate of 66 guns, which was actually built, does not have strakes on the gun port lids.

Referring to “The Ship” by Bjorn Landstrom:

On pgs. 160-161 is a beautiful full color rendition of the 100 gun "Prince" C1670, one of the oldest admiralty models in existence which is exhibited at the Science Museum in South Kensington. The second after most gun port on the lower deck cuts entirely through the whale strake. The strake is not on the gun port lid. Neither are the lesser strakes on the gun port lids on the upper deck ports.

Now just to show the universal truth about ship building is that nothing is universally true, Landstrom shows a Dutch man of was C1670 on pgs. 156-157 and the strake is on the gun port lid! Go figure.

From a practical standpoint, while the whale strake adds strength and integrity to a wooden hull, it also serves a big rub rail, or bumper when the ship was tied to a rock or concrete quay. Regular planking is usually too frail to take the bumping and grinding caused by swells and harbor surge. It is therefore doubtful (IMO) whether many ships were built with strakes on their gun port lids. Since the lids have relatively little structural integrity compared to the hull, one good crunch and there goes the lid, hinges and all.

I might add that the whale strake on my 42’ Garden Porpoise ketch was a 3” x 6” piece of solid oak. I could only imagine at the size of the lumber used on a 100 gun ship of the line. Considering the weight involved, it’s hard to imagine that a piece was added to a gun port lid just for aesthetics. It could take four guys just to open the lid.

What ship are you building?

A quote from Jim "The history of this ship ( Prins Willem ) is that when war broke out they added as many cannon as they could. The gun ports run in nice straight lines from the bow, but the aft portion looks like a HMS Victory wannebe. They put 4 levels of guns in a space where there may have been none previously.

So, any experts out there that can help me with the question?"...................... Jim,Im looking at the Prince Willem and she is a wonderful replica.The builders may have looked and decided that the wale in the gun port areas having a structural efficiency would not have mattered due the two wales both top and bottom of the port lids would compensate the integrity of the ship.If your looking to build the Prins Willem it will be a wonderful build.Cheers Walt

Just to clear up confusion...
I am finishing the second layer of planks on the Prins Willem. I chose the ship because it was similiar to the Mayflower in design...which was my first kit. I also considered the ornamentation on the ship which I hope to have success replicating.

The comment which makes the most sense concerning wales on the lids is the added weight, which would have made it difficult to raise the lid. So I believe I will leave the wale off.

Thanks again for all the help...

Slowlearner

Here is a picture of the HMS Victory with the whale running over the gun ports toward the stern of the ship. Notice the added part of the whale on the gun port lids. Hope this helps answer your question.

Marc Milosevich

:coffee:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1337/5123055/10444622/364056158.jpg

Well, I guess I'll change that "not gonna" to "gonna". Thanks for the picture marc1967.

Slow

by the way...what's the significance of 1967? I can personally attest that it was a great year to graduate from high school.

I’m not sure whether your question was a general question or a question pertaining specifically to the Prinz Willem.

As you probably know, there is a full size replica of the Prinz Willim at Der Helder, Netherlands. I’m sure they could help you with your question, and much more.

There is a well done model of the Prinz Willem currently located at the Rijksmuseum with a rather mysterious past.
“It is not known who commissioned or made the model. Nor do we know what the model was used for until the end of the nineteenth century. At that time it was 'discovered' by a collector, to be donated to the Rijksmuseum in 1907. “
The photos clearly show the strakes on the gun port lids. Once you get to the site, click next to see the pictures. Check it out:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/ng/z/ng-nm-11911.z%3Fleftcoulisse&imgrefurl=http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_assets/NG-NM-11911%3Fpage%3D1%26lang%3Den%26context_space%3Daria_encyclopedia%26context_id%3D00047526&h=580&w=687&sz=62&tbnid=sTgGRDxw1ytdJM::&tbnh=117&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPrins%2BWillem&hl=en&usg=__cJiEkII_GuUHvJGII6lrLABz2Rw=&ei=KqkJSp-bMZLIM42_5dQL&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image

What a truly magnificent ship she was. I was born 300 years too late. As Jimmy Buffett says, "the cannons don’t thunder, there’s noth’n to plunder, I’m an over 40 victim of fate.”

That is the year I purchased my first car, which I still have a 1967 Dodge Charger. More fun then I can put into words !!

Marc Milosevich

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I can relate. Before I built ships, I restored a '67 Camero SS 4 spd (4:88 rear end). It got between 3-4 mpg. so it had to go. Now I'm finishing up a '94 Supra TT (about 450 rwhp). Cars are fun, but I think I like ships better. They don't leave oil spots on the floor and I can buy a nice kit for the price of 6 months insurance.

thanks again for the help

Slow

HEHE!!! Talking about going OT "SMILE".......But I own a 68 Camaro SS 396CI big block with an M20 Muncie rock crusher four speed equiped with a vertigate shifter.The car is canarey yellow with black SS stripes.It is not on the road right now but i'm hoping to get her back out once the economy picks up.Thanks for the stories.......Not only am I a big fan of model ship building.......But am also a gearhead lol.Cheers Walter