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Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 09-18-2007, 08:14 AM
Glad everything worked out for you, and thanks for the info.
Newsboy should be fun, kind of like a larger, brigantine version of the Phantom. Have fun, and keep us posted on your progress.

Speaking of progress, it's been a few days since I posted an update. I have stepped the masts and have begun the standing rigging. The practicum called for rigging the bowsprit guys, footropes, and bobstay as the first rigging, but I decided to follow an outside-in method instead. So I waited on rigging the bowsprit until I had the masts up, and then did the jib stay and forestay first, and then the bobstay, footropes and guys. Last night I rigged the triatic stay and main topmast stay.
Here's the newbie error of the week...I have not been using the kit supplied eyebolts, as they seemed out of scale for most of the eyebolts on the ship. So I've been making my own eyebolts. As I have been making them and placing them, I've been referencing the plans to make sure the ones that will have multiple lines are big enough...but what I didn't account for was the larger rope size. I made all the eyebolts for the thinner thread, so I had to replace almost every one for the standing rigging because they weren't large enough for the larger diameter rope...oops. Live and learn. At least it was a very fixable mistake.
For all the standing rigging, I have been siezing the lines rather than tying them. There are a couple spots where the practicum refers to tying (particularly on the bowsprit) where I thought that knots just wouldn't look right. I tied the footropes which are the smaller diameter line. I also noticed on the plans that there are a few blocks sized to some of the stays (forestay, jibstay and two on the main topmast stay)...looking forward in the practicum, sure enough they are mentioned in the sections for rigging the halliards. I decided to install them now, as I am rigging the stays.
I'm happy with how the rigging is going so far, and am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. On to the shrouds tonight.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Well I had a particularly bad night Thursday. I had been fighting with my printer, trying to figure out how to get some decent looking flags. I finally gave up on that for the evening and went back to the model to do some finishing touches and prepare for taking photos of her to get my refund from MS. As I was reaching for a bit of left-over rigging line to make another rope coil, I bumped the model with my elbow and sent her to the floor. Talk about a near heart attack! Luckily, only the boom snapped, not a huge deal. I'll need to replace it, as it snapped in half...not salvageable (though I'll be able to re-use the blocks and such). But it would have been much worse if it was one of the masts. The cap rail also split right over the center of the transom, but it snapped right back together without leaving even the slightest mark, and doesn't look like it requires any gluing. So it could have been much worse. I wound up splinting it and gluing it back together so I could take the photos needed to get the refund. I had it in a state that was complete enough to get the refund, all I need to complete (other than replacing the boom) is the flags.

On the problem with the flags, I purchased some rolling papers (as recommended by Chuck in his Mayflower log) but found that the ink was over saturating the paper and running, leaving fuzzy lines, and stars that are basically indistinct little white blobs. Also, the colors look a bit off to me, a little too bright. I PM'ed Chuck, who recommended spraying the rolling papers with a fixative (said hair spray should work). So I'll give that a try. I'm also going to try to fiddle around with the colors, and see if I can darken them up a bit. Will post photos once I'm all done with her.

I took the photos to my local hobby shop and got my MS refund from them, and applied it to the Sultana kit they had waiting for me. Itching to get started on her, but I've got a few more evenings of work on Phantom first.

Posted by - shawr
Post date - 10-16-2007, 05:14 PM
Ben,
Ouch. It gave me a queasy feeling just reading about the 'accident'; glad the damage was minor. Sultana, eh? Seems to be the more popular choice between it and the Newsboy I went with. I can't find too much info on the Newsboy model; looks like I'm on my own. I am almost to the deck planking with <knock on basswood> no big dilemmas.

I did get a response from the Mariner's Museum about the plans for the Newsboy:
http://www.mariner.org/library/plans_dwgs/selected_plans.php

I got a chuckle out of it:

---- Begin Paste ----
Mr. Shaw;

Although The Mariners' Museum does have two sheets of plans for the Brigantine Newsboy, we are not permitted to reproduce them because of copyright considerations. The copyright is held by Model Shipways, a division of Model Expo. Their website is www.modelexpo-online.com . According to a recent communication
with the company, they can accommodate most requests for ship plans.

Good luck with your research.

Bill Barker
Assistant Archivist
The Mariners' Museum
100 Museum Drive
Newport News, VA 23606

----- End Paste ---

They still list a ton of other plans on their site for sale/research.

Keep me posted on your Sultana - or lemme know where you'll be posting your progress.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-17-2007, 08:04 AM
That is comical. Glad you didn't shell out a few bucks and then wind up with another copy of the MS plans.
I haven't decided on posting progress photos. Sultana (like Phantom) has been modeled to death, and there are plenty of personal and group build logs floating around in the forums. I will probably post a minimum of photos.
I've completed the repairs. Chuck's idea with the hairspray is a big improvement. Not perfect, but good enough for now. I'll fiddle around with other options for the flags on Sultana when I get there. Just need to rig up a few more of the flags and make the stand, and I'll be done.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-23-2007, 08:13 AM
Well she's officially done. I had finished up the fiddly details late last week, and made the display stand over the weekend. Placed her on her stand last night (and then re-glued the handle on the bowsprit winch for the umteenth time). I had purchased the MS pedestals a few weeks ago and darkened them with blackening solution because I thought the bright shiny brass clashed with the bright shiny copper hull. But they provided drywall screws with the pedestal. Dry wall screws?! Not to mention that they were way too big... the keel is only 1/8" wide, and the outer diameter of the threads on the screws were nearly 3/16". I could not find appropriate screws. The only ones that were thin enough (size 4) aren't readily available in lengths over 1". So I decided to go with dowels. I had some left over in 1/32" but that was too flimsy, so I went with toothpicks instead. Not only were they a perfect width (about 3/64") but they were stiffer than the birch dowels.
So she's complete, provided I don't send her to the floor again...
Will take pictures tonight. Then it's on to Sultana!

Posted by - ChuckPassaro
Post date - 10-23-2007, 09:05 AM
Congrats, Thats a great feeling isnt it. I cant wait to see your photos. On a small model such as Phantom you probably could have just glued the keel into the pedestal slots. Its not very heavy. The likelyhood that you will remove it at some point is very small.

Cant wait to see the Sultans progress.

Chuck

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-23-2007, 09:57 AM
Congrats Ben,
I know you had fun with the Phantom and you will have more fun with the Sultana. Anxious to see your phantom photos.
Dennis

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-23-2007, 12:12 PM
Thanks guys, and yes it does feel great.
Regarding gluing the keel to the pedestals. I considered it, but only very briefly. The pedestals from MS have 5/32" slots, so they're a bit big for the 1/8" keel of Phantom. So if I had glued them, it would only have been to the underside of the keel...one surface. Also, I didn't have any epoxy, so I was looking at bonding brass to the copper plating with either CA or PVA which I didn't think was sufficient. And even if I had epoxy, there was the bond of the copper plating to the keel itself to consider. So I went with dowels instead, which didn't turn out to be difficult at all.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-23-2007, 10:10 PM
As promised, photos are in my gallery. The thumbnail below links to the gallery:
http://shipmodeling.net/photopost/data/860/thumbs/Phantom_5.JPG (http://shipmodeling.net/photopost/showphoto5193.html)

And both my models together, just for a feeling of scale...Phantom is about 76 feet long, 1/8" to the foot. On the right is my lobster smack, 30 foot long ship, model is 1/2" to the foot. Coincidentally, both ships are from about the same time period.
http://shipmodeling.net/photopost/data/500/DSC00588.JPG

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-24-2007, 07:23 AM
They both look terrific Ben,
Did you use the scored deck planking that came with the Phantom kit or make your own? It looks really crisp. I'm working on a vintage MS Elsie kit that a friend gave me and have decided to make the deck planking. I think you will really enjoy the Sultana.
Dennis

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-24-2007, 07:46 AM
Morning, Dennis :sleep:

Yes, I did use the scored planking. I think it turned out nice enough. I would have liked to have done something to simulate the caulking, but I couldn't find anything that looked good enough. Couldn't get a pencil in those tiny slots. I will not be using the scored planking on Sultana. I don't think the scored stuff would be close to scale for anything but 1/8" scale.

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-24-2007, 08:14 AM
The Elsie is 1/8" scale also. I'm cutting 3/32" wide strips from 1/32" basswood for deck planking. Think it's going to look pretty good. I used a dark pencil to simulate caulking on the Sultana. Turned out OK, I feel. Oh well, they are our ships and as long as we are satisfied that's what counts. The Sultana was my second build and I feel I learned so much from it.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-24-2007, 08:39 AM
Don't know how many you've cut already, but you might want to consider going a little smaller. At 1/8" scale, 3/32" would be 9 inch wide planks. Of course, going smaller means that many more fiddly little planks to lay, which is basically why I stuck with the scored planking sheet on Phantom.

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-24-2007, 08:45 AM
I agree about the width. But the Sultana is 3/16" scale and hull/deck planking is 1/8" wide and looks pretty good. I plan to sand the 3/32" strips down a little so they will be little less than than 3/32". Also the quarter deck planking on the Elsie is curved to match the bulwarks.

Posted by - hardingb
Post date - 10-24-2007, 08:50 AM
Yeah, I was considering doing the same with the Sultana planking. Perhaps build some kind of jig to shave down the deck planks a bit.

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-24-2007, 09:16 AM
Well, have fun with the Sultana and keep us updated.
Dennis

Posted by - shawr
Post date - 10-25-2007, 08:53 AM
Congrats Ben. Looks great.

I'm planking the deck on Newsboy. I ran a black Sharpie down one edge of the plank and layed them with the Sharpie side towards the outboard. I used pencil on the ends because the Sharpie wicked too badly. Had I thought of it sooner I would have lined up the joints with the particular bulwark stanchion, figuring there would be a beam thereabouts, if ya catch my drift. Then, after sanding I took a pencil and made dots to imitate pins or dowels or whatever they used back then to secure the planks; one on each plank at the joint. I'm satisfied with the outcome.

We'll be calling you the Sultana of Swing before long. With appologies to Dire Straights :-)

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 10-25-2007, 09:02 AM
Sounds like your having fun Roger. Send some photos sometime.
Dennis

Posted by - shawr
Post date - 11-01-2007, 01:40 PM
It's too ugly to show pictures.
:yikes:

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 11-01-2007, 08:29 PM
You probably have looked at your ship so long that all you see are the flaws. Other people normally do not see them, so don't be too concerned.
Dennis

Posted by - shawr
Post date - 11-03-2007, 11:49 AM
Here's a couple. One of the Newsboy - and my working mount which I find very sturdy. The other is a shot of the lifeboat I carved from a piece of quarter round. I'll use it in place of the cast version that came with the kit.

Posted by - Spankydude1
Post date - 11-03-2007, 12:00 PM
Hull looks very good Roger. Like the blue bulwarks. On the lifeboat's, did you glue 2 pieces of quarter round together & then shape it? Did you carve it out for the inside? Might try this idea for the dories on my Elsie.
Dennis

Posted by - shawr
Post date - 11-05-2007, 11:54 AM
The lifeboat is one piece. I placed the metal one upside down on the flat side of the quarter round and traced the basic shape and just started hacking away at it. The keel is a piece of 28 gage wire, super glued into postition. Since it is placed on the deck upside down I did very minimal carving out on the top side. Just enough so it's sorta concaved; by this point a was afraid I'd snap it in two.

By all means, give it a try - let us know how it turns out.

Posted by - kjcrisler
Post date - 11-29-2007, 08:51 PM
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping someone out there can give me some help. I bought the Model Shipways Phantom kit about 10-15 years ago and started to build it. Then life got in the way and the kit sat in a box on a shelf for many years. I recently restarted on it. Things are going pretty well. I found Chuck Passaro's construction guide...that's been a terrific help since the original kit instructions were only 3 pages long. Anyway, enough background...

The Practicum suggests that the current kits come with two different sizes of black rigging line. My kit only came with one size. As best I can measure it, it is 0.02" in diameter. I suspect this is appropriate for the larger rigging lines. Can anyone suggest what size rigging line I should use for the second set of lines?

Thanks in advance,
Ken

Posted by - ChuckPassaro
Post date - 11-30-2007, 08:06 AM
Hi Ken

Thanks for the kudos on the practicum. I would suggest .oo8 and .012 rigging line in black. Also some sewing thread that isnt fuzzy for even thinner lines. Then the same for the tan lines. In fact you could probably get away with only .008 and the sewing thread for the running rigging. (Tan)

I would use that thicker stuff you have for the shrouds. Its probably .018.

Chuck