Bwahahahaha. Mine arrived a day early *nya nya* :banna: I already started cutting out my templates, other than that I got nothing. I just printed out the Guide by Chuck Passaro and i've been reading my Jackstay. I did inventory all the parts and everything seems in order. Tonight i'll start looking at shaping that hull down to its proper dimensions. Off to an interesting start.

Christian

Hey all, finally received my kit, situated my work area, and all set to start; but.......after ordering my key tools:

*columbina vaccum vise
*clamps, chisels, squares, etc...

....................the primary tool i plan to use on my frist step of hull sanding and shaping ( an electric hobby drill is backordered on modelexpo)......

Jeez!! Will I ever get started???????
(just about researched and prepared to my fullest sanity)


Corey

Well, I finished coppering tonight. As you can see the larboard side is much smoother. It was recommended to me that I “burnish” the plates with the backside of a fingernail to smooth them out. This worked very well, and the difference can be seen.

I was also told that a good idea is to rub (from bow to stern) the plates after they are all on with fine steel wool. This should smooth them out and remove oily fingerprints that might show up as the copper tarnishes. Have not bought any steel wool yet though…

I am still considering sealing the hull with some sort of aerosol poly. I keep snagging on the individual plates as I handle the hull.

Looking forward to seeing everyone else’s phantoms as they progress!

~Clayton

OK, got mine!

I didn't realize how small this model is. Unless there is a reference when viewing these models online, it's hard to judge size. It's only 9-3/8" long from stem to stern without the keel on it. Oh well, guess I'll be wearing my magnifying goggles throughout this build... I've sanded down the keel to the specifications of the template, and set the center line down the keel with the outside reference lines at 1/16" each side of the center line. My only question now is how do I know that the center line is actually the center of the Hull? And Oh by the way, in the practium it referred to only having to remove 1/8" off the stern to bring it to the proper size. Well I had to remove a 1/2" of wood to get the templates to come together at the middle of the hull.

My Phantom was waiting for me on the front stoop when I got home from work. After letting to dog out (first things first) I popped open the box and gave it a quick lookover. I too was surprised at the size -- I thought the hull was a lifeboat and they forgot to put in the "real" boat hull. Live and learn. Then I checked the parts list and tools. Everything's there. Read through the Jackstay last night. I have a 4 day weekend to get started. I'll post photos of my progress. I'll try to work slowly, deliberately and with accuracy, however I have a photo of my next challenges hanging over work area to keep me moving forward -- Benjamin Latham Grand Banks Fishing Schooner. Good luck and Godspeed to us all!

Ric

Yes, use the Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer under the copper plates. In fact, I use it on all wood parts, except those you might want to stain first. I use it whether the wood is subsequently painted or not. Deft is just a sanding sealer. It seals the wood and allows you to sand to a much finer profile before painting, thereby preventing subsequent coats of paint from raising the grain. It’s of no use to sand bare wood much finer than 120 to 150 grit, since the first coat of any paint or clear coating will automatically raise the grain to a 120 to 150 grit profile, (make it fuzzy). Of course, after applying a couple coats of Deft, just sand with 120 or 150 grit under the copper plates, since the plates will cover it anyway.

I like Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer for two reasons. It dries in 30 minutes to an hour, and it has a very fine filler powder in it that imparts a sort of antiqued satin look to wood if the wood is not subsequently painted. Clear varnish and urethanes are just too shiny and slick. It is available at Home Depot.

While I’m thinking about paints, Floquil has a very interesting article on scale painting, which can be downloaded from their website. Its basic premise is that the smaller the scale, the flatter and grayer the color. This is because the mind does not fully perceive a 2 foot long model as a small version of the real thing. It perceives it as being the real thing, but far away, and the farther away something is the flatter and grayer the color is. A full size locomotive may be shiny black, but when modeled in HO scale, shiny black looks wrong. A flat or semi flat very dark charcoal looks right.

For black hulls and black parts on a model ship, I love Floquil’s lacquer based “Grimy Black”. It’s in their “Railroad Colors” series. I know, you’re thinking “I’m not putting anything called Grimy Black on my ship,” but I’ve tried every black made and this one just looks right. Try it. I have yet however, to find the perfect white.

Funny how all of us (we?) phantom builders sounded shocked by its size. Am I the only one who found the instructions and parts list vague? It doesn't say when to paint (before or after coppering) and I had no idea that the templates were supposed to meet in the middle (centerline). I guess I'm just a greenhorn (this is my first attempt). I also didn't anticipate spending another $200 for tools and stuff. My wife didn't anticipate me converting the den into a workshop either!
The Jackstay was quite a read. Man, I feel like I'm building a real boat. In 3 days I've faired the hull, busted out the transom while carving the gunnels and have just finished shaping the deck. I found that using my dremmel with a round sandpaper head worked great to get the gunnels to size. Any suggestions on cutting in the waiste? Tonight I get to figure out which piece of wood to make the keel out of and how to attach it to the hull. Then I have to figure out how to curve the keel up to the bowsprit. If I remember the technique was shown in the Jackstay...
It is slow going but kind of fun.

Hey Mike, welcome to the forum! Sounds like you are further along than I am. I was less than impressed with the instructions as well. Have you checked out the Phantom Practicum (http://www.modelexpo-online.com/instructions/PhantomNew_Web.pdf)?

Hey Clayton,

I downloaded the practicum yesterday. What a Godsend! So technical yet succint and easy to understand. I now know that I'm going to finish this thing and it is going to look good when I'm done too!!! seriously though, it's taken me about 5 hours to finish the hull and deck. Cutting the waste took some time and was very delicate work. Tonight I do some coppering. That should be fun! I'm such a geek.

Mike

OK! For anyone interested, the .20 mm, the .25 mm & the .30 mm acupuncture needles are too thin to penetrate the wood. They bend too easily.

I,ve order some .4 mm - 2" long needles made for use on animals. I'll see if they hold up any better.

The .30 mm needles would probably work with balsa wood.

Mike:
So how did you remove the waste from the bulwark? That is the very next step for me and I am not sure how I want to go about it. I will probably follow Chuck’s advice in the practicum unless you (or anyone else) might suggest an easier way to do it. I am a little nervous about this part of the modeling process because of all of the warnings about how easy it is to break a piece of the bulwark off while thinning it.

How’s the coppering going? Once I got started it was a lot of fun for me, and the completed product is very satisfying to look at. I would enjoy seeing some pictures of your progress.


Steve:
I was just about to order some acupuncture needles, but will wait to hear how the 0.4mm ones work for you. Keep us posted!

~Clayton

Hello Clayton,

When it comes time to remove the wood from the bulwark, I'll be using my Dremel with one of those cylinder shaped sanding attachments to help bring down the thickness of the wood. Then I'll use a sanding detailer I got from Micro Mark to smooth up the surface. I've heard some people go to Wal-Mart and buy those manicure sanding sticks to do detailed work.

I've learned how to have a lite touch when using my Dremel, it has come in very useful to me. In fact, I used my Dremel to take off the excess wood from the Phantom's hull and keel.

Hey Steve,

Good to know - I have a Dremel in my woodshop, but never thought of using with ship modeling. You mention having to maintian a "lite touch." Have you ever removed too much wood all at once?

I will have to think about trying that out...

~Clayton

Hi Clayton,

I haven't screwed up yet, but there is always a 1st.

Different woods sand differently. I would suggest you get some scrap wood similar to what you will be using during the build, draw some lines and curves on it and practice sanding with your dremel and see how to sand up to the lines. I have even glued pieces of wood together to see how I could hollow it out.

Practice and experience are the best advise.

Clayton,
The answer is very carefully! I actually started chiselling it as per the plans but Chuck's practicum is just so much smarter. I guess you can say I cheated because I used a dremmel with a small round sander head to sand away at the bulwarks on the inside. I trimmed it down to just about 1/16 on the inside. I then traced a line on the outside for the waste and scored it with my exacto knife. After that I cut lines perpendicular to the scored waste line about 1/32 deep (approximate) and then just nibbled the litte sections out with the exacto until I had the waste completely cut to about 1/32 deep all around. After that I used my dremmel with a small med fine sanding disk and worked it around the outside of the bulwards where I'd cut the waste in. Being very carefull I cut what I think is a pretty good waste and the bulwarks are about 1/16 all the way around.
To get the deck, the stern and the bow done I used a small chisel for the heavy stuff and then used my exacto to cut the curve in the bow. I don't know all the terminology yet but to square off where the deck meets the bulwarks I first used a small chisel and the exacto knife and finished it off with the dremmel w/ small sanding disk attached. Finally I sanded the deck to what I think is the proper amount of camber(?) so that the middle is higher than where it meets the bulwarks.
All I can say is it takes time and caution and thank GOD for the dremmel!!
As to coppering, it is going to take forever but it is very therapeutic and I don't mind taking my time if it comes out right.
Thanks and chat at you later!

I was just looking at the pictures of the coppering you'd done. It looks real nice, especially the way that you have run the courses. I was wondering, did you use the copper tape the way it came or did you cut it in half the way that Chuck's practicum advised? I've been cutting it in half along the length and then cutting it into 1/4 inch pieces. It is taking me forever to lay it and since yours looks so good I just might start using the tape without cutting it in half.
Thanks
Mike

Hey Mike, thanks - I am glad that you think my coppering looks nice.
Yep - I became frustrated with trying to cut the tape in half and decided to leave it 1/4" wide. I might have been willing to spend the time cutting them in half if I felt that I could do a good job. I could not develop a method to cut the pieces straight, even from longer pieces.

Clayton707 (http://shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/member.php?u=1210) suggested a good idea though: He thought that super gluing a 8-10" piece of the copper tape, backing face-down, to some cardboard (like the kind from a notepad) might help keep it steady. Then a guy could make the lengthwise cut and then the individual plate cutes. This might work, assuming that the CA does not seep through the backing.

Have you (or anyone else) cut in the scuppers yet? I am wondering what size drill bit to use.

~Clayton

I ended up cheating too. I used the full width of the tape but overlapped it about 1/32 to make it look thinner. I also didn't bother cutting it into plates, I just ran the tape the full lenght of the hull and then scribed the joints in with my exacto afterwards. I'm going to try to figure out how to post a picture to show you my finished hull. Tell me what you think.
As far as the scuppers go...Chuck's practicum shows them located midway up the bulwarks. Obviously that would leave the poor sailors waiste deep in water. So I am going to think a bit on starting it even with the decking and waterways on the inside (I'm going to lay some manilla folder board on the inside of the rough deck to approximate the finished height of the deck after I've installed decking and waterways) and then I'm going to drill is pilot hole on one end of the scupper. I'll then use my dremmel with a small cutting bit to grind out the lenght of the scupper. I think that will be the easiest way. What do you think?

Hi gang. While I'm on a completely different build I did have a brief comment on Dremels. I've just recently acquired the Dremel Mini Mite (cordless). After using it, I dont' know how I used any other. My regular Dremel and other rotary tools have gone into retirement! LOL

speaking of dremels, i have the 400/xpr and really like it, but the economy brand of accessories i bought off e-bay is very dissappointing. what is a good source for quality attachments?

I think your copper plates look great! I just received my Phantom and that’s exactly what I’m going to do. The real Phantom was probably re-plated a few times in its life. Who really knows how big the plates were. Probably no bigger than two men could hand them up a ladder and nail on. How big would that be to scale?

You’re exactly right on the scupper issue. I noticed the problem right off in the Practicum. Scuppers are always at deck level, not only to evacuate sea water off the deck as fast as possible, but also to keep fresh water from pooling. Standing fresh water is a sure invitation for wood rot. I know; I constantly fought the problem on my wooden boat.

Clayton, can you tell me how to access the instructions for model expo?
Your link shows the following and I can access the Phantom if I use your link, but can not otherwise. Are there other on-line instructions on their website? When I look, I don't see anything.

http://www.modelexpo-online.com/instructions/PhantomNew_Web.pdf

Thanks for your help. Mike

If I recall correctly copper plates were almost always 14”x 48”; that would put the correct scale sized plates for the Phantom at 0.15" x 0.5" or close to 1/8” x 1/2” (if I did the math correctly). I think that Mike’s (imforgvn) copper plates look great; I really like the lines of it. Great job!

Tonight I am going to finish thinning the bulwarks – I have been carving them. From all of the good recommendations I should try my Dremmel, but I am afraid to start a new process right now and mess something up. Carving them down is easy as long as you take your time.

Chuck mentioned in his practicum that he damaged part of the deck while drilling a hole (hawse?). I think that I will do my best to drill all of the holes and cut the scuppers before putting in the deck and waterway. With patience and good measurements it should be possible, right?

Mike (duhawk) are these the links that you need?

Instructions (http://www.modelexpo-online.com/instructions/MS2027_Phantom.pdf) for Phantom by MS
MS Phantom page (http://www.modelexpo-online.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?FNM=00&T1=MS2027BT&UID=2006101109394788&UREQA=1&TRAN85=N&GENP=)

~Clayton

Clayton,
Thanks for appreciating my coppering. It took long enough! Last night I cut my first scupper. Took me about an hour to finish it. Learned a lot. I did it before I finished the decking. I did lay a piece of the decking down to give me the correct level for the bottom of the scupper. I drilled two 1/16 holes 25mm apart from each other and cut the scupper out with my exacto knife. Although I was successful, I think the scupper opening is too big (heightwise). So as I was drifting off to sleep trying to convince myself to live with it, I decided that I was going to fill it with wood filler (I know, it is shame) and then redo it using my dremmel and a cutting disk. I think the disk is just about 25 mm in diameter and about 1/32 thick so by marking the location of the scupper I should be able to carefully "grind" the wood out from both sides by side cutting it. That way I can control the size of the scupper and ensure that it is properly located. Thoughts?
Mile
p.s. Don't fear the dremmel! With a little patience and a steady hand you won't ruin anything, and will allow you to do things more efficiently. I bought an accessory kit that had about 30 attachments and about 75 sanding disks. It is awesome.

Mike - I would be curious to hear/see how the scuppers turn out by using the dremmel and sanding disk. That is something that I might like to try. How will you cut-in the shorter ones on the aft deck? How did the first scupper you cut turn out too tall? Was the drill bit too big, or was it difficult cutting out the remainder with the knife?

Also, did you get the accessory kit online?

~Clayton