Hi all,
One thing that keeps me thinking is the question of wood finishes. After wirewolf mentioned Damar Varnish, which I like allot, I started thinking about and trying other types of finishes. The varnish really takes on new properties when heated, penetrating the wood deeper for better protection. The optimum is to heat it to the point just before it starts to move from the heat. Any more then it will caramelize.

One type I also like is a Danish oil estopol from Watco based on linseed oil. It comes in 8 colors and really brings out the wood grain. A one step method.

http://www.woodnshop.com/Watco_danish_oil.htm

Another wood finish based on Tung oil is Liberon Finishing oil. Of course the quantities these both are available in will last a lifetime.

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/FinOil.html

I'm now at the point of finishing the deck so I have a palate of test decking for experimenting with. In addition the finish will be carried to the masts, spars and gaffs. Any other thoughts on finishes?

Just a couple of thoughts on finishing wood. The one big thing to remember about wood, in regards to hull and deck planking, is that finishing the wood on one side can cause problems if not securely glued/nailed down due to different absorption rates of moisture between the finished and unfinished sides of the wood. That being said, I have not run into any problems as of yet, but I use CA as my hull and deck adhesive.

Also to keep in mind, most varnishes are "soft" finishes, that is, the finish will expand and contract as the wood does in relation to humidity and sunlight. Also make sure that any stains you use are UV resistant if your model will be in sunlight at all. I have not yet run across a UV colorfast finish (one that will not fade) but I hope they are out there.

Regarding Tung Oil, it is truly a lifetime finish! It soaks into the wood and hardens the surface as the oil cures. A very good finish!

In regard to polyurethanes, if only one side is polyed, I would recommend using a spar poly, more flexible than interior use poly, again allowing for the movement of the wood.

Any other questions, ask away, I will do my best to research and answer!

Good luck to all!

Hi and welcome flywater. :wave:

Out of all the modeling thinking I'm doing I'd say wood finishing is on my mind most often. I keep thinking about using different woods for hull, incl wales, and decks, and using the right finish on them. I even contacted the Lumberyard and ordered their sample set of wood just to see what is available. I'm amazed at the selection!

What are your thoughts about using "Wipe-On Poly" from either Minwax or Watco? I've seen both but don't have experience with it. Is it good as a general finish? If you use it on the hull can it be painted?

Dave

Good information, i myself use "antique finish", which comes in bottles and can be rubbed into the wood. I agree with the risk of different absorption rates and i am carefull in using them.

Our local paint shop offers transparant oil, that can be coloured by mixing pigments. This way u can produce any colour u want, i've not tried it yet. In the near future i will run some experiments.

Thank you for the compliments on my info gentlemen! Wirewolf asked me to sit down and put my thoughts down about different wood finishes and I should have something to post within another day. If you have any specific wuestions, please feel free to PM me, or, I ask you give me another day or two and I will be posting some info about a whole bunch of options, re: different finishes and different woods. Thank you for your patience!

Great!. i'm looking forward to your results. I'm still a little affraid putting anything on my model. I had bad results with the varnish i used on my first model. So some extensive advise to appriciated. It will save some time on doing the research myself, not considering the amount of time and money needed to expriment with the options to stain or varnish he model.

I would appreciate if u made distinction between surface stains and penetrating stains.

Goodluck.

RG, there is no difference in stains. All stains penetrate! The type of stain you use and the wood it is applied on denote the amout of penetration. There are options that are available, such as wood dyes. I will be discussing all this in my post after wirewolf and I work out the edits. Wirewolf brought out things that I hadnt touched on that need to be added, so I will. Do not despair, it will be posted soon, If you need a quick answer, PM me and I will try to help! Again, thanks to all you shipmates for your patience!

Just wanted to let all the shipmates know that after much editing with the ol' mans great assistance, a new article on wood finishing is available in the "articles and shop notes" section! Good luck to all!

Great article flywater ;-). I need some time to study all the information but i'm sure this will answer allot of my questions.

C++ Thank you! if there is anything I can help you with or to clear up, please feel free to contact me!!!!! again, thanks for the compliment!

Just to bring all up to date, just finished decking the whaler I am building (MS Charles W. Morgan) and have all the coamings installed. Will be using a washing stain (not to completely color the wood, just to weather it), then two or three coats of tung oil. Will post pics of before and after for reference.

Thanks flywater,

Can't wait to see it. I'm planning to use Tung oil as well, but can't decide between it and wipe-on poly.
Dave

Thought that I would put in my recent bad experience so others dont make the same one! After finishing the deck on my current model (MS Charles W. Morgan), decided to tung oil the deck. After 4 coats, deck looked good, but no sheen to them. decided to apply 2 coats of gloss poly. Now deck looks great, for a yacht, but not a working vessel. So, sanding and sanding, couldnt get the deck to the sheen I wanted. Decided to apply Testors Dullcote Laquer (oil based) over the H2O based poly and not 10 minutes after applying, the laquer scaled, that is, looked like fish scales. A few words left my mouth when I saw that! After 2 hours of sanding, got the deck back to the way I wanted it, that is low sheen and sealed. Be careful how you use your finishes, a hard learned lesson!

Lol, i used some cheap varnish on my first model. Could write a article on that "how to ruin your model under 5 mins". Took allot of sanding to fix the mistake.

One thing i learned from that : in the future i will use test assemblies to try the varnish or antique paint.

Some of the best things I learned about modeling (for that fact, most things in life) were from mistakes (I prefer to call them - "Life's learning experiences", sounds nicer!) I had made. You curse, swear, take a little break, learn, move on, and never forget!
Some of the best inventions (for modelers anyway): Instant glue, sandpaper, wood filler, booze!

Booze?!? Did somebody say booze?

Thank goodness for extra planking strips. I've used so much of it through testing different finishes that it covers the model up. I must say I'm really surprised and disappointed with several finishes. Now to be fair I've only used mahogany, walnut, sapelly and basswood. The next step is to branch out and obtain many woods. Looks like I'll be calling dlumberyard.com. This promises to be a time consuming endeavor.

Dave

Curious what has dissapointed you Craven? what type have you tried on what woods? Let us know!

Oh, I should have chosen a better word. I wasn't dissapointed but rather not satisfied with the finish I was trying to obtain. i.e. for the mahogany strips I was hoping that tung oil would be the best but as it turns out the wipe-on poly with sanding between layers and a final rubdown with 0000 steel wool really looks like a waxed finish. IMO the finish shouldn't look shiny.

I've also tried to bring out the wood grain in the kit supplied mahogany strips with a near black wood filler wiped on and then sanded off but to no avail. Not because the procedure was flawed but because the wood grain on the strips have no pattern. I'll have to rip planks from a bought sheet to get a consistant grain. I feel like I can build 50 models and have a different finish on each.

Dave

Question...(s)

On my Scottish Maid, I was planning to go "natural wood" below the waterline, flat black above, up to the natural finish caprail.
I've never dealt with tung oil...can it be painted over, and are there paints that don't "get along" with it? I'm assuming there is an extended drying period with this stuff? It's a nice finish that would look nice on the lower hull.

Also, I'm curious as to how folks do finishing of the deck areas...the furniture, housings, bulwarks/frames etc. A lot of these areas are not suited for sanding between coats of finish. (my deck has a coat of sanded Liquatex on it, everything else including waterways is thusfar unfinished)

Thanks for the article, very informative! (Edit: I have been perusing the FAQs and found a nice section on finishing. It appears that an oils based paint "should" do okay over dried and cured tung oil...tho I will test first)

Dave

Hello dljolly,

I have used Tung oil for many years in all of my furniture projects, and naturally have incorporated it into my wood models. And in my opinion Tung oil is the finest natural wood finish in existence.

Yes Tung oil can be painted over, in fact Tung oil is actually used in many paints!
But again in my opinion Tung oil is best suited for application on bare wood for a natural finish. And it actually has a quick drying time. I prefer to apply the Tung oil by literally hand rubbing it onto the area, the heat generated from your hands and the action of rubbing the surface helps the oil penitrate deeply into the wood.

There are many synthetic finishes, including lacquer, shellac, and varnish all of which protect wood with a hard impervious layer. But these surface finishes prevent the development of patina, the lovely depth and tone that only natural aging can produce. Eventually synthetic finishes will break down and discolor, when that happens the entire surface must be removed by labor intensive stripping and sanding before another coat is applied.

Penetrating finishes formulated with linseed, soy or paraffin oils actually go into the wood and enhance its natural beauty, but these oils often dry incompletely and fail to form a hard and durable surface. Furthermore, they develop a gummy build-up when additional coats are applied. Linseed oil, the most commonly used penetrating finish, darkens and changes color with time and finally disintegrates.

A Polymerized Tung Oil finish is hard yet flexible, waterproof and impervious to alcohol and many food acids. Polymerized Tung oil as a penetrating oil allows wood to continue its aging process and to develop its patina. The wood's rich color and grain are enhanced by the natural ambering (coloring) of Polymerized Tung oil over time. Any sign of wear disappears when a thin "maintenance" coat of oil is rubbed in. The maintenance coats, rather than cause a build-up, actually improve the patina as they protect and preserve the wood.

Here is an article on wood stains that you might find interesting.wood stain link (http://shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=38)

Also check out this great article by flywater on wood finishs flywaters article (http://shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=2)

Bill

Tung oil...WOW!!!

Tried some on some different wood strips, just to see the effect...good golly!

Then put it on the 'Maid. Absolutely lovely finish...however...
I sure found all the gaps in my planking...again. I think I may try one of those wood finish repair sticks, the little "crayon" types, see if I can fix these areas inconspicuously (after my final coat).
Also, it really brings out the "bad glue" areas. I used both CA and carpenters glue in the planking and keel install. It obviously seals the wood, and keeps the tung oil out. Would resanding help here, or are such blemishes permanant? With the CA spots (along the keel line particularly) there is a thin "light" area.
I'd be curious to hear other's process in getting a truly clean hull before the finishing...

Dave

Tung oil...WOW!!!

Tried some on some different wood strips, just to see the effect...good golly!

Then put it on the 'Maid. Absolutely lovely finish...however...
I sure found all the gaps in my planking...again. I think I may try one of those wood finish repair sticks, the little "crayon" types, see if I can fix these areas inconspicuously (after my final coat).
Also, it really brings out the "bad glue" areas. I used both CA and carpenters glue in the planking and keel install. It obviously seals the wood, and keeps the tung oil out. Would resanding help here, or are such blemishes permanant? With the CA spots (along the keel line particularly) there is a thin "light" area.
I'd be curious to hear other's process in getting a truly clean hull before the finishing...

Dave

Hi Dave,

You ran across the problem I had with Tung oil. The glued areas really showed up esp with CA glue. Since CA glue wicks into the wood a bit it would require a fair amount of sanding to remove enough of it to allow the Tung oil cover evenly.

This is where I resorted to satin polyurethane, both the plain and Wipe-on poly from Minwax. The Wipe-on tends to darken the wood a bit but both hide the glue well, and bring out the natural wood. The only problem is what Ozark mentioned, there is some penetration into the wood but its mostly a surface hard shell coating. I found that sanding the surface as smooth as possible with a light sanding between coats, 2 or 3, is very important so that the finish with Wipe-on gives a French polished look.

In areas that are free of glue I prefer to use the Tung oil though for longevity and eventual patina look. Just my 2c.

Dave